Coffeehouse Thread

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Can Microsoft still call it Visual "Basic"?

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  • User profile image
    W3bbo

    A while ago in my Electronics class, we progressed onto microcontrollers and a bit of good ol' fashioned BASIC.

    ...on suitable 1981 computers as well.

    We had to devise some BASIC programs for seemingly trivial tasks, such as making a series of LEDs flash in a certain pattern, it's a lot harder than you think.

    Which had me wondering, whilst we're typing out commands long-winded using GOSUB, how can Microsoft call the latest revision of VB (albiet as a frontend for .NET) "Basic"?

  • User profile image
    RamblingGeek​UK

    I don't think it should be called BASIC any longer. I believe part of the bickering over c# and VB is that VB has the word BASIC in it, which makes other people, who choose to use other languages to think of VB as inferior in some way, as with any language there advantages and disadvantages to all.

    I think a better name would be V+ Big Smile

  • User profile image
    Karim

    Once upon a time, a man went to a restaurant and ordered a hamburger.

    The hamburger arrived and the man started to eat.  It was the most delicious, juicy hamburger he had ever eaten in his life.

    "Excuse me, waiter," the man said.  "What's up with this hamburger?  It's wonderful!"

    "Ah," said the waiter.  "At this restaurant, the chef makes his hamburger from ground-up filet mignon."

    The man frowned and put down his hamburger.  "Well in that case, I don't think you can still call it 'hamburger,' can you?" he asked angrily.

  • User profile image
    Manip

    It shouldn't be called Visual Basic at all... 5, 6 are VB, VB.not is just not VB and never will be.

    I'd call it C#-- 

  • User profile image
    Manip

    The guy should complain to trading standards. And plus for that analogy to work VB.net would actually have to be good.

  • User profile image
    Cider

    And from Hamburg?

  • User profile image
    Blue Ink

    Less "Beginner's" than its ancestors, maybe, but more "All-purpose" than ever.
    So, basically yes. Wink

    --m

  • User profile image
    Tensor

    Manip wrote:

    The guy should complain to trading standards. And plus for that analogy to work VB.net would actually have to be good.



    What features you use of c# do you particularly miss in vb? I think it was niec of Microsoft to share all those wonderful old style VB advantages with the C people of the world. They even added curley braces to make you feel more at home.

  • User profile image
    Sabot

    I Love VB! (I've said this before)

    The basic constructs of Visual Basic, i.e. sequence, selection and iteration are still the same as the initial version of B.A.S.I.C (Beginner's All-purpose Symbolic Instruction Code)invented in 1964 by John George Kemeny and Thomas Eugene Kurtz at Dartmouth College.

    But we have to face facts that BASIC has to move with the times like all good things should if it is ever going to continue to be successfull, so we are going to have to say goodbye to ...

  • Def<type>
  • Computed GoTo/GoSub
  • GoSub/Return
  • Option Base 0|1
  • VarPtr, ObjPtr, StrPtr
  • LSet
  • Windows API calls

    ... more info can be found here on this most excellent page!

    Many developers start with Office and VBA! And VBA is still going to be around for sometime, it's going to be in Office 12 and therefore will be supported as long as Office 12! Visual Basic.Net 2005 is a nice step up from VBA, it's not to much of a large set you think?

    (Don't get all sniffy and pompous about developer who code in VBA as they may be users and not professionally trained, people have to start somewhere, it's up to us to help guide them to the light side! Remember you don't become a Jedi over-night)

    Anyway, it's easier I think to learn coding with Visual Basic 2005 than it was with Visual Basic 6, I wouldn't agree if it was Visual Basic 2003, edit & continue as well as other features has made Visual Basic accessible again.

    VB.Net is still way coool and isn't going away! So deal with it people![6]

  • User profile image
    blowdart

    000330 IDENTIFICATION DIVISION.
    000340 PROGRAM-ID. MAIN.
    000350 AUTHOR. Anon Y Mouse.
    000360 DATE-WRITTEN. 20 December 2005.
    000370
    000380 ENVIRONMENT DIVISION.
    000390
    000400 DATA DIVISION.
    000410 WORKING-STORAGE SECTION.
    000420
    000430 PROCEDURE DIVISION.
    000440     DISPLAY "Hello World! "
    000450     DISPLAY "From COBOL.NET!!"
    000460 END PROGRAM MAIN.
    

  • User profile image
    Sabot

    Karim wrote:
    Once upon a time, a man went to a restaurant and ordered a hamburger.

    The hamburger arrived and the man started to eat.  It was the most delicious, juicy hamburger he had ever eaten in his life.

    "Excuse me, waiter," the man said.  "What's up with this hamburger?  It's wonderful!"

    "Ah," said the waiter.  "At this restaurant, the chef makes his hamburger from ground-up filet mignon."

    The man frowned and put down his hamburger.  "Well in that case, I don't think you can still call it 'hamburger,' can you?" he asked angrily.


    Karim,

    Whats in a name?

    'Karim' means 'generous dude', so mate where's my Christmas beer?

    [6]

  • User profile image
    Yggdrasil

    W3bbo wrote:
    Which had me wondering, whilst we're typing out commands long-winded using GOSUB, how can Microsoft call the latest revision of VB (albiet as a frontend for .NET) "Basic"?


    It doesn't call it "Basic". It calls it "Visual Basic.NET", because it's a programming language with a syntax derived from Basic, and is part of the Basic family of languages.

    Just like C# is a programming language with a language derived from C, a part of the C family of languages. It's definitely not C, but I don't see anyone clamoring to change the name.

  • User profile image
    Tensor

    blowdart wrote:
    000330 IDENTIFICATION DIVISION.
    000340 PROGRAM-ID. MAIN.
    000350 AUTHOR. Anon Y Mouse.
    000360 DATE-WRITTEN. 20 December 2005.
    000370
    000380 ENVIRONMENT DIVISION.
    000390
    000400 DATA DIVISION.
    000410 WORKING-STORAGE SECTION.
    000420
    000430 PROCEDURE DIVISION.
    000440     DISPLAY "Hello World! "
    000450     DISPLAY "From COBOL.NET!!"
    000460 END PROGRAM MAIN.
    


    OUT FOUL DEMON!

  • User profile image
    blowdart

    Tensor wrote:
    blowdart wrote:
    000330 IDENTIFICATION DIVISION.
    000340 PROGRAM-ID. MAIN.
    000350 AUTHOR. Anon Y Mouse.
    000360 DATE-WRITTEN. 20 December 2005.
    000370
    000380 ENVIRONMENT DIVISION.
    000390
    000400 DATA DIVISION.
    000410 WORKING-STORAGE SECTION.
    000420
    000430 PROCEDURE DIVISION.
    000440     DISPLAY "Hello World! "
    000450     DISPLAY "From COBOL.NET!!"
    000460 END PROGRAM MAIN.
    


    OUT FOUL DEMON!


    Fujitisu is my dark master.

    NetCOBOL for .net

    I swear if they did a free version that plugged into VS2005 (talking of which where is the IronPython / VS2005 integration) I'd use it in presentations as my primary source language.

  • User profile image
    Tensor

    blowdart wrote:
    Tensor wrote:
    blowdart wrote:
    000330 IDENTIFICATION DIVISION.
    000340 PROGRAM-ID. MAIN.
    000350 AUTHOR. Anon Y Mouse.
    000360 DATE-WRITTEN. 20 December 2005.
    000370
    000380 ENVIRONMENT DIVISION.
    000390
    000400 DATA DIVISION.
    000410 WORKING-STORAGE SECTION.
    000420
    000430 PROCEDURE DIVISION.
    000440     DISPLAY "Hello World! "
    000450     DISPLAY "From COBOL.NET!!"
    000460 END PROGRAM MAIN.
    


    OUT FOUL DEMON!


    Fujitisu is my dark master.

    NetCOBOL for .net

    I swear if they did a free version that plugged into VS2005 (talking of which where is the IronPython / VS2005 integration) I'd use it in presentations as my primary source language.



    STOP STOP THE NOISE MAKE IT STOP!

  • User profile image
    W3bbo

     

  • User profile image
    cokert

    I've had this conversation a million times before, but never had any kind of satisfactory resolution.  I'm hoping someone here can offer some insight so I can put this to bed in my head. 

    What's the real difference between C# and VB.NET?  My stance is it’s completely a preference thing.  I prefer VB.NET.  I use C# sometimes, but I have been completely unable to find anything I can't do in VB.NET except i++.

    I prefer VB because the code is more readable, but that's something that would get better over time.  I can read c# (I write in it about 20% of the time), but VB is just more natural to read.  The other reason (and the bigger reason to me) is variable declaration.  In VB, I type "Dim a as " and VS prompts for the type.  With C# you have to know the variable names or type CTRL+J to show the inteillisense prompt.  Some people have said this is a lazy, stupid reason to prefer a language, but isn't intellisense and having the IDE do as much of the work as possible the WHOLE POINT OF USING AN IDE???

    Another difference I read somewhere is the compiler does a few further optimizations on c# code than it does on vb.net, so w/ large apps, I’d imagine c# is the better choice.  (None of the projects I'm on are large enough to see a difference.  Plus I have no idea if this is 100% true...)

    My ranting and frustrations aside, my question really is what are the real differences that set them apart?  VB.NET now has xml comments.  Generics work. What does c# have that vb.net doesn't that makes it superior?  Or do I just end up talking to language snobs all the time?

  • User profile image
    blowdart

    Tensor wrote:

    STOP STOP THE NOISE MAKE IT STOP!


    Perhaps you were prefer Fortran? Ada?

    Actually it's a shame it seems to difficult to make plugins for VS. Microsoft missed a serious trick here in easy adoption. ActiveState announced last week they were dropping ActivePerl's integration for VS due to lack of interest and they couldn't give it away due to the SDK license used.

    If MS made it extremely easy to drop in a new language compiler, help and intellisense into VS and gave that interface away it would be wonderful, but they're still completly @n@l about a lot of APIs.

    I tried to track down the SCC API to try to write a generic MSBuild task that would work with any source control provider that plugged into Visual Studio. Can't get it, and I can't see any good reason why not.

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