Coffeehouse Thread

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Latest Windows Update

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  • User profile image
    imekon

    Last night, Windows update installed patches for IE6 - a browser I rarely use (another topic). Afterwards I was informed I need to reboot my machine, I declined as I had things in progress. Shortly afterwards I was reminded, again... and again...

    Hey guys, I can accept a reminder a couple of times, but why this apparently endless series of reminders?

  • User profile image
    Charles

    Aggressive reminding leads to expected outcome implicit in the reminder.

    Unfortunately, patching system files today often requires a reboot since copies of one or more files that need to be replaced with newer versions may be loaded in memory while the update is happening. Keep in mind that in these cases the system may not be fully patched until you restart it.


    Charles

  • User profile image
    barogers

    This is the new behavior introduced by SP2 (or by using the v5 Windows Update site).

    If there's a critical update downloaded to your machine, it will continuously harrass you until you install it (and reboot, if necessary).

    Alas, this is what we 'expert' users have to put up with because Joe Blow can't click on the little update icon in the system tray every once in a while. 

    I find that it's a little irritating, depending on what I'm doing, but I understand its necessity.

  • User profile image
    lars

    barogers wrote:
    If there's a critical update downloaded to your machine, it will continuously harrass you until you install it (and reboot, if necessary).


    A very effective way to get people to turn off the updating altogether. Or if that option is also removed, block it in an external firewall. Providing protection is good. Harassing users is bad.

  • User profile image
    Manip

    But the lush (and kinda evil) thing is that the same users that ignore it until they have to do something are the same people that don't know how to turn off the auto-update >-)

  • User profile image
    Charles

    The best approach, if applicable, is to set Auto Update to download AND install patches at off-use hours. So, sometime around 3:45 AM would be good. 

    There needs to be some level of user responsibility when it comes to system patching. Sure, in an ideal world it would be great if you never needed to install a critical security patch and you never needed to reboot your system after updating it. Until this time, though, please patch your systems as soon as possible after receiving an update. Oh, and NEVER turn Auto Update off. Smiley

    Charles

  • User profile image
    PeterF

    Charles:
    You regret having set this option when you are encoding some video at the highest quality and the next morning when you expect it to be finished you are staring at a clean taskbar.

    When there would be a functionality that hibernates unrelated applications so they would continue after a reboot, now that would be a reason not to turn automatic updates off...

    But indeed, sometimes users need to be 'stimulated' to install the patches and reboot. I like the proposed strategy for Longhorn to turn off specific features until the patches which fix those features are installed.

  • User profile image
    Charles

    Good point, PeterF. There will always be certain scenarios, like yours, that make automatically updating your system at a specific time hard to do. Sometimes you just have to finish what you're doing before rebooting and you certainly don't want your long-running processes automatically interrupted and potentially ruined while you sleep restfully.

    However, I don't think that disabling AU altogether would ever be necessary to compensate for these types of specific issues. 

    Charles 

  • User profile image
    PeterF

    Charles:
    Well, I didn't say I was completely ignorant about updating Wink
    I have it set to dowload updates, but to let me choose when to install them. Too bad there is no setting for having it install too, and let me choose when to reboot... Sometimes it takes longer than a minute to install them, that step could have been done allready in my absence.

  • User profile image
    imekon

    Manip wrote:
    But the lush (and kinda evil) thing is that the same users that ignore it until they have to do something are the same people that don't know how to turn off the auto-update >-)


    Why not have an option that allows me to turn this feature off, or make the feature shut up after, say, three reminders?

  • User profile image
    surferdude

    "Why not have an option that allows me to turn this feature off"

    Or better yet, how bout you reboot your computer and install the stoopid security patch? That's why your being reminded!

    Constant reminders are a good thing. 95% of users out there will find this useful, it will help cut down on worm outbreaks.

    -surf

  • User profile image
    imekon

    surferdude wrote:
    "Why not have an option that allows me to turn this feature off"

    Or better yet, how bout you reboot your computer and install the stoopid security patch? That's why your being reminded!

    Constant reminders are a good thing. 95% of users out there will find this useful, it will help cut down on worm outbreaks.

    -surf


    Because I don't need it! I did say I rarely use IE. My default browser is Firefox and my EMail client is Thunderbird.

    Constant reminders are a demonstration of idiotic user interfaces. Give me the option to turn the damn thing off!

  • User profile image
    PeterF

    Right click My Computer->Properties->Automatic Updates tab and select what you want. I can't recall what the pre-SP2 options were, but you should be able to turn it off there...

  • User profile image
    imekon

    The option to turn off automatic updates is there, but there's no option to turn off the annoying "please reboot" reminder after installing something that requires a reboot.

  • User profile image
    PeterF

    Oh sorry, I completely misunderstood it Smiley
    Well, if you manually choose to update you have a reason to do that... and if this update goes in effect after a reboot, well be prepared to reboot. Guess how fast lawsuits will come of people thinking they are safe after installing a patch without them rebooting.

    It's as 'annoying' as the confirmation box that you are installing an unsigned driver. But I guess now noone can say they didn't get a warning.

  • User profile image
    Karim

    Charles wrote:

    Aggressive reminding leads to expected outcome implicit in the reminder.


    Is the outcome of ticking off the entire user base explicit then, or merely implicit?

    I suspect this will soon replace "Clippy" as the public's Microsoft Feature We'd Most Like To Kill.

    Like many people with laptops, I hardly ever actually reboot my system these days.  I have my power switch set to "hibernate."  So after a few days, I almost always have dozens of browser windows open, representing sets of tasks that I'm working on.

    Then along comes Automatic Updates (aka "Clippy '04") and says I need to reboot my computer to finish installing an update.  Ok, later.

    Later.

    Later.

    I said, "Later."

    LATER!!!  LEAVE ME ALONE!!!

    DIE!!! DIE DIE DIE!!!  I'LL REBOOT WHEN I'M GOOD 'N G--DAMN READY!!!

    But eventually I'll have to cave in, open the two dozen browser windows one by one, decide whether I need that page open for the next few days (create link on desktop), whether I'll return to that page repeatedly (add to Favorites & hope that I can find it again), or whether I can just close the window.

    THEN reboot.

    THEN put my browser windows back where I had them.

    What we desperately need is a way of saving application state -- specifically browser windows.  That way Windows can bug me to reboot, I can blithely say, "Fine, ok," and I can start back up with the same two dozen browser windows I had before, exactly where I left them.

    We saw someone working on this app in one of your MS Research videos.

    And I've seriously thought about switching to Opera just because I heard it had this feature.

    What MS should have done was release this feature (save state) FIRST, thus making reboots painless, *THEN* introduce the Critical-Update-as-Nagware feature.

    Instead, we'll be stuck with our computers nagging us ("Nag nag nag... must be your time of the month... for Critical Updates...") and then Microsoft will come out with the save-state feature...

    ...only it's going to require LONGHORN...

    ...which will drive us all to upgrade....

    Oh, wait, never mind.  It all makes sense now.

  • User profile image
    Manip

    MyIE-2 has the ability to save a group of windows that can be re-called later. So before you shut down just save the state and re-load on startup. Smiley

  • User profile image
    Charles

    Karim,

    I'm laughing out loud as seems to be usual after reading one of your posts.

    The problem I had with Clippy is that I never found it to be especially useful, in fact, it was purely annoying. Critical system updates that require a reboot to reload affected files back into memory,etc are certainly annoying, but in the end post-installation system restarts are an essential (and unfortunate) part of the update process (but not forever), whereas Clippy was just something that got in the way of the task at hand.

    It's a shame we have to reboot at all and that is the holy grail for all complex operating systems: no reboots required to patch applications or the system itself. I know we all want this.

    I don't think a setting that tells Windows to forget about finishing an update to itself is a good idea. However, granular control over the frequency of annoying events is good place to find a compromise.

    Keep on posting,

    Charles

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