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"Why do I need Vista?" - Scoble and Clement explain!

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  • User profile image
    irascian
  • User profile image
    Manip

    Another Blogger wrote:

    Why do I need Vista?

    Let’s see...

    All new networking stack

    Many times the performance. Video

    Normal users won't feel a thing, this is MORE of an issue for Longhorn Server. Perhaps a small increase if you have a 10/100/1000 network but those of us on 10/100s or even just broadband won't. Plus where do you think the increase though-put is coming from? Let me tell you, it is increased CPU and memory usage.   All new audio stack
    Per-app audio, etc. Video 

    Even in the video it is said that it is only audio professionals that will notice the difference. That was, after all, who it was designed for. When playing an MP3, WMA or OGG file it will sound exactly the same.
    New UI and graphics layer
    Nicer UI with better video and audio integration.  Video
    (More details on this soon)
    New *slower* UI and graphic layer... Say goodbye to all your CPU cycles. New search integration and file management
    Tons of new things here. Video
    File management? ... Didn't they also REMOVE most of these features, which were part of their new file system? Plus Google and MSN have great desktop searches if you have the CPU to spare, and those can be uninstalled New fonts and readability technology Windows XP has cleartype fonts too... They are just not enabled by default. New kernel changes
    Performance, security, and all that. ">http://channel9.msdn.com/Showpost.aspx?postid=148820"> Video
    You linked to your Microsoft.com mail account... Apart from being stupid, it also just shows how independent your opinions are... And how they clearly aren't part of Microsoft's marketing machine. New features for international users
    See Japanese and English fonts on screen at same time, etc. ">http://channel9.msdn.com/Showpost.aspx?postid=146169"> Video
    You can already do that on Windows XP... It is called unicode... New print technology Muh... They didn't even add a filter to stop blank pages being printed, or better quota support.... New installer technology What is wrong with the OLD installer technology? And of course Microsoft will *have* to back-port it to XP or app vendors wouldn't use it... It isn't a reason to buy Vista. New sidebar and gadgets
    Take advantage of that new high-resolution wide-screen monitor tech that’s now out. ">http://channel9.msdn.com/Showpost.aspx?postid=128231"> Video
    So £150 ($200) for a Sidebar, which I won't use, and gadgets, which Yahoo! are giving away... Hell why not just burn the money? New sideshow (external monitor for laptops)
    Are you gonna buy a new laptop next year? It probably will have one of these. ">http://channel9.msdn.com/Showpost.aspx?postid=124796">Video
    The client will have to be back-ported to XP and the server is next to useless unless you are a lecturer or some kind of academic. New updated applications like Windows Mail
    Use email on your machine or answer questions in newsgroups? Watch this: ">http://channel9.msdn.com/Showpost.aspx?postid=116711"> Video
    Why not spend the $200 on the Office suite? You get Outlook, which is a REAL mail client and other things that you might actually use. New crypto technology I for one wouldn't trust Microsoft with my crypto needs... And the current cryto solutions on XP aren't out-dated just yet anyway. New RSS platform RSS is useless to me... I've never used it... I don't want it... And I want free RAM more than I want a bloated IE client. New sound experience by Robert Fripp
    You gotta get Windows Vista if you want it. ">http://channel9.msdn.com/Showpost.aspx?postid=151853"> Video

    Waste of money, waste of time, I disable the sounds 8seconds into first boot... You can throw all the famous names you want, people will quickly get sick of it and Microsoft will be left with a big hole in their pocket.

    Plus the fact that this made your list at all just goes to show how LITTLE Vista offers to the consumer. If the list was long and interesting I doubt something so unimportant would get on it.

    What exactly DO the sounds have to do with an Operating System ANYWAY?


    Funnily enough you missed off your list two of the ONLY good features in Vista. The increased security offered by the promote to admin box and the per-application volume control. But those two features alone aren't going to be worth it for Vista's high price tag.

  • User profile image
    Bobinho

    How about just keeping the promises made in 2003 and earlier? I would be happy with that.

    Nothing on that list offers a competitive advantage over Mac OS Tiger. (I am no Mac lover, just keeping MS honest)

    Robert Fripp? Frippertronics were (moderately) interesting in the '70s...

  • User profile image
    Sven Groot

    Manip wrote:
    Another Blogger wrote: New fonts and readability technology Windows XP has cleartype fonts too... They are just not enabled by default. New features for international users
    See Japanese and English fonts on screen at same time, etc. http://channel9.msdn.com/Showpost.aspx?postid=146169" target="_blank"> Video
    You can already do that on Windows XP... It is called unicode...


    ClearType is much improved in Vista, and some of the new fonts are great. None of the fonts in XP were actually designed with ClearType in mind, the new fonts are.

    Seeing Japanese and English on screen at the same time is definitely possible right now, but far from optimal. Japanese and English fonts don't work together very well right now, producing sub-optimal or hard to read results especially when using vertical text. Also, all Japanese (Chinese, Korean) fonts on XP don't support ClearType or any type of anti-aliasing. The difference with the new fonts is just staggering, they are absolutely beautiful.

    Manip, did you write those comments? They seem to have been written by someone who hasn't actually used Vista.

  • User profile image
    Yggdrasil

    Manip wrote:
    I for one wouldn't trust Microsoft with my crypto needs... And the current cryto solutions on XP aren't out-dated just yet anyway.


    Oh, so you wouldn't trust MS with your crypto needs in Vista... but you're perfectly fine with their solutions in XP?
    It sounds very "I didn't do it, and anyway nobody saw me"

  • User profile image
    Cairo

    So... Vista is XP with a new theme and lots of bugfixes? Oh, and per-app volume control. Is that the gist?


  • User profile image
    W3bbo

    Cairo wrote:
    So... Vista is XP with a new theme and lots of bugfixes? Oh, and per-app volume control. Is that the gist?


    I've never actually needed a per-app volume control.

    And adding yet /another/ volume control is just going to confuse the users: how does WMP's volume control work with the per-app control?

  • User profile image
    dentaku

    I like the way drivers are handled in Vista with the driver store etc.
    That's a definite improvement.

  • User profile image
    Larry​Osterman

    W3bbo wrote:
    Cairo wrote: So... Vista is XP with a new theme and lots of bugfixes? Oh, and per-app volume control. Is that the gist?


    I've never actually needed a per-app volume control.

    And adding yet /another/ volume control is just going to confuse the users: how does WMP's volume control work with the per-app control?


    Perfectly Smiley  I spent a great deal of time with the WMP team making sure of that Smiley

    WMP posed some challenges because of the way it renders audio, but we were able to make it work.  And using only public APIs.

    It's actually somewhat ironic.  Apps that used the mixer APIs to control their volume (and thus controled the master volume for the entire machine) will be ok with the new volume control because the mixer API had  a notification mechanism.  On the other hand, if they set their volume using IDirectSound8::SetVolume, they would have problems, since DSound (and WAVE) don't have a volume notification story.

    So if your old audio app was rude and took over the system master volume, it'll play well when using the new mixer APIs.  But if it was polite and implemented per app volume, then the sliders won't track Sad.

  • User profile image
    Manip

    Sven Groot wrote:
    Manip, did you write those comments? They seem to have been written by someone who hasn't actually used Vista.


    Can't you defend Vista without attacking me? ... Because with that you aren't doing either particularly well.

    LarryOsterman wrote:
    if they set their volume using IDirectSound8:etVolume, they would have problems, since DSound (and WAVE) don't have a volume notification story.


    Can't you hook into the IDirectSound8 and get it to call the main volume control instead?

  • User profile image
    irascian

    Manip wrote:
    Sven Groot wrote: Manip, did you write those comments? They seem to have been written by someone who hasn't actually used Vista.


    Can't you defend Vista without attacking me? ... Because with that you aren't doing either particularly well.


    For someone who's never "never suffered fools gladly" on these boards yourself, you're incredibly thin skinned! Since when has asking a question and saying that criticisms "seem" to have been written by someone who hasn't actually used Vista been an "attack". 

    If someone applied such an analysis to your own posts most of your posts would be described as "nuclear devastation", so stop being such a drama queen. It was a simple and innocuous question.

  • User profile image
    GeoffC

    It's not the question that I would be asking. As far as I'm concerned:

    'The real question is not "do I need Windows Vista?", but "what is the cost of upgrading/replacing my complete system - applications, hardware, and operating system?. The cost of the upgrade of the operating system alone is not the point. I would like to be proved wrong - it would be great if all my applications and hardware continued to be supported under Vista. But somehow, I don't think that's going to happen, and I'll resign myself to soldiering on with Windows XP for as long as I can.'

    More at http://spaces.msn.com/members/gcoupe/Blog/cns!1pfnKMM_BORf8-PhonbrwGoA!1825.entry

  • User profile image
    Sven Groot

    Manip wrote:
    Sven Groot wrote: Manip, did you write those comments? They seem to have been written by someone who hasn't actually used Vista.


    Can't you defend Vista without attacking me? ... Because with that you aren't doing either particularly well. 

    I was not attempting to attack you. From the way the original post was written I'm not sure whether you wrote the comments in red yourself or were simply quoting them.

    Regardless of whether or not you wrote them, I stand by my claim that they sound like they were written by someone who hasn't actually used (a recent build of) Vista. If that is not the case, then I am sorry.

  • User profile image
    Sven Groot

    GeoffC wrote:
    I would like to be proved wrong - it would be great if all my applications and hardware continued to be supported under Vista. But somehow, I don't think that's going to happen

    Hardware, you may be right. There are many changes in Vista which means that in some cases drivers written for XP will not work. Currently all my hardware works on Vista (the exception is Creative's sound cards, which work but have some major issues), but I have fairly modern and mainstream devices. It is however telling that even on my laptop, which is SiS-based (a company not exactly known for their stellar driver support) every last device works as intended; video (no glass of course), audio, network, PCMCIA, card reader, they all work. Some even out of box with no need for additional drivers. Still, there will be hardware where existing drivers don't work, and not every company will be willing to write drivers for the new platform.

    Software is another story. Except for special applications such as virus scanners, there is not really any reason why it wouldn't work, unless they were exceptionally poorly written. Most software that works on XP will continue to do so on Vista.

  • User profile image
    MasterPi

    I doub that you would need to upgrade hardware to run Vista. AFAIK, it's just the drivers that need to be upgraded. 

  • User profile image
    dentaku

    Sven Groot wrote:

    Software is another story. Except for special applications such as virus scanners, there is not really any reason why it wouldn't work, unless they were exceptionally poorly written. Most software that works on XP will continue to do so on Vista.


    I actually stumbled onto some software that doesn't work well in Vista last night for the first time while seeing if the latest NVidia drivers performed well in a game (ToCa Race Driver 3 Demo).

    It seems that StarForce copy protection does not like Vista and the fact that you're not always running as admin. This, it seems, is the fault of the copy protection and not Vista.
    I don't know why a demo would have copy protection but it was there.
    I even forced the game to run as admin but that just gave me a different error which froze the system, blue screened then restarted the whole computer.

    Otherwise, I haven't had much problems with software in Vista.
    The onboard sound on my motherboard even works if I install the Soundmax drivers.

  • User profile image
    Larry​Osterman

    Manip wrote:

    LarryOsterman wrote: if they set their volume using IDirectSound8:etVolume, they would have problems, since DSound (and WAVE) don't have a volume notification story.


    Can't you hook into the IDirectSound8 and get it to call the main volume control instead?


    The problem is that DSound's secondary buffer volume controls are implemented in the client before they get to the audio engine (they have to because of the way that secondary buffers are mixed).  And because they're secondary buffers, DSound doesn't provide a feedback mechanism to notify the app that the volume changed.  Thus the sliders can't track (since the dsound app has no way of knowing if the volume's been changed out from under it)

  • User profile image
    sysrpl

    The big problem I see with Vista is it's system requirements and resource usage.

    On my laptop, if I have use 3D in any windows it gets hot pretty darn quick really sucks the batteries hard. To that I say, no thank you.

    On my desktop computer, if I leave a 3D accelerated window open, the ambient noise level goes up and the room temperate begins to rise. Always leaving my computer on in my small one bedroom apartment I could in all seriousness see my power bill jump from $90 a month to $175 a month.

    Just image how Windows Vista will affect the United States already horrendous record on power consumption. We are less than 5% of the world's population, but we use 40% of it's power.

    "God gave us the earth. We have dominion over the plants, the animals, the trees. God said, 'Earth is yours. Take it. Rape it. It's yours.'" -- Ann Coulter


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