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Brain drain

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  • User profile image
    Keskos

    Brain drain in tech's future

    Discussion about technology's future in the United States often centers on problems that eighth graders have in algebra. But there also are concerns that the country's universities are churning out fewer tech-related doctorates, and that the numbers may decline further thanks to fewer foreign doctoral degree candidates--who earn a large portion of science and engineering doctorates at U.S. schools.


  • User profile image
    eagle

    In the UK, people aged 60 and over make up a higher proportion of the population than children under 15.

  • User profile image
    object88

    A bit of personal antecdotal evidence... While working on my Bachelors degree, I had an internship and was strongly considering applying for a Masters program.  By the time I was done with my Bachelors, I was making great money and had been practicing the craft of my choice for several years.  There wasn't a perceived need to persue a Masters, much less a PhD.  Not to mention the pervasive rumor / "common knowledge" that PhDs ended up unemployable due to overqualification.  I.e., if you got your PhD, it was unlikely that you would end up with a job that either used those skills or earn a significantly greater pay.

    So now I've still got just by Bachelors, and am still earning several times what PhD canidates are earning, while still doing what I want to do.

    Perhaps my goals were set too low?  Smiley

  • User profile image
    lars

    It will all be outsourced in a few years anyway Tongue Out

  • User profile image
    kevinsch

    A couple of things are happening here.

    First, there is absolutely a downturn in the number of students in the US pursuing technical degrees. Americans are not encouraged to go into it, and post-9/11 it is much tougher for foreigners to get student visas to come study here.

    Second, while the downturn is most prevalent in computer science, it turns out that there is as much computer science going on in American universities as there ever was -- it just ins't going on in the CS departments. It's happening in biology, physics, cehmistry, astronomy -- across all of the sciences, as well as the social sciences. Computing has migrated to the places where it is needed the most and will have the most impact.

    Third, the upper middle class and upper classes in the US think of computing as a "trade school" thing, and actively discourage their kids from pursuing it. Tour the high schools in the Northeast -- the best computer labs and programs are in the large public high schools, and the prep schools have meager computer equipment. There is a strong message being delivered here. It's also nothing new: as a CS major at Dartmouth, I can tell you firsthand that it was class warfare.

    Fourth, China and India have no such misconceptions, and are actively growing their computer science degree programs. And the growth rate is tremendous.

    The bottom line: if computing moves offshore, and computing research follows, we have no one to blame but ourselves. It will be our own short-sightedness that got us into this. And since computing is now an essential part of all of the sciences, expect the rest of the sciences to follow suit. Outsourcing isn't a statement about cheap labor; it's a statement about the value that we place upon particular disciplines and whether we see them as integral to our economy, our society, and our future.



  • User profile image
    Keskos

    I think it is also about money. Many professors went to industry and they didn't get new students for a while. Also now there is no money to support more students. That's why foreign students numbers are reduced because they are more expensive in many universities, non-resident status issue.

    So I think it is money plus industry is more appealing to students.

  • User profile image
    eagle

    Geniuses are self taught, a University education is highly overrated. With a library card and an internet connection all the accumulated knowledge of mankind is at your fingertips.

  • User profile image
    PeterF

    Still no reason to hire you... where is the proof that you can work in a team? Or that you are able to deliver original work?

  • User profile image
    eagle

    Thank-you very much for the elevation to genius status, but as I’m not an Anglo-Saxon you would never hire me.

  • User profile image
    PeterF

    Don't know why you bring your background/religion/color into the picture. I simply wanted to state it is less of a risk to hire someone who proved themself in an environment of regulated education. I've met a few people who at first were considered far from a genius, some of them first went to study in the lowest form of high school and finished one study after the other until they reached university level. And I've met a few bright people who went brisk through university with the highest grades and are still unemployed because they lack some forms of social skills needed to perform tasks in the real world.

    Simply putting the label Genius on someone who collected great knowledge by himself doesn't guarantee functional skills.

  • User profile image
    eagle

    Corporations and institutions the world over are stuffed with individuals who attained their positions because they went to the “right schools”, attended the correct Churches and were from “good” families. The only value they add to a company is to reflect management’s image of itself. The end result is no creativity or innovation, so outsourcing becomes a tactic of desperation.    

  • User profile image
    PeterF

    So? Nothing to be envious about not getting a position at one of those corporations or institutions?
    There are still companies out there who look further than college and background. Talent stands out of the crowd.

  • User profile image
    eagle

    PeterF wrote:
    ... where is the proof that you can work in a team? Or that you are able to deliver original work?


     

    Contradicting yourself is not an enviable talent.

  • User profile image
    Jaz

    eagle wrote:

    Thank-you very much for the elevation to genius status, but as I’m not an Anglo-Saxon you would never hire me.



    whats that got to do with anything?

  • User profile image
    eagle

     Twll dîn pob Sais!

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