Coffeehouse Thread

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Vista delayed...misses Christmas - launch now 2007

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  • User profile image
    jamie

    http://news.com.com/Vista+debut+gets+delayed/2100-1016_3-6052270.html?tag=nefd.lede

    not by much... 4 weeks (jan)
    for security fixes (what else...) and "usability issues"  


    hmmm Wink

  • User profile image
    DCMonkey

    jamie wrote:
    http://news.com.com/Vista+debut+gets+delayed/2100-1016_3-6052270.html?tag=nefd.lede

    not by much... 4 weeks (jan)
    for security fixes (what else...)

    Boooo!

    MS should offer free upgrades to Vista for PC's bought during the holiday season.

     

     

     

  • User profile image
    Manip

    ... Because of security... Sing me a new song sometime Microsoft... 

    Everyone who is anyone knows security is in the process not the review...  

  • User profile image
    Cider

    For crying out loud, that's a total joke.

    What sort of utter cretin launches a new product in JANUARY?  What a joke.

    Its ridiculous to say you have to delay for 4 weeks now.  Its fricking March.  If things are running behind, you DO NOT give up and say to your staff, "oh well, delay", you say "you have 8 months to find 4 weeks, or I will lay off the lot of you".

    Boy oh boy, does Microsoft just needs a "Neutron" Jack Welch character to go in there and get rid of about a quarter of the engineers...

  • User profile image
    Manip

    I think the engineers are fine, they are doing what they've always done... No, No, No... What you have to do is go in and fire a bunch of managers and scoble-like characters ("technologists").

    Then turn around and pick up some managers from small, low budget, companies and tell them their limitations and get them to ship on time.

  • User profile image
    jamie

    blatzcoder wrote:
    And, Jamie, do you build all your websites in .NET? Unless he is referring to "ASP.NET"...



    im still figuring out ASP
    the .Net stuff ive tried is over my head technically

  • User profile image
    Cider

    Manip wrote:

    I think the engineers are fine, they are doing what they've always done... No, No, No... What you have to do is go in and fire a bunch of managers and scoble-like characters ("technologists").




    Bull.  That's the easy way out that too many people in big organisations use.  Trust me, I work at a University and see some of the most incompetent people working there who blame managers for their own incompetency.  Its the pitiful excuse that Mini-Microsoft twunt uses.

    The whole thing just comes across as people who do not really care about this.  And that is the illness.  Is Allchin at all embarrassed by the delay?  No.  That says a million things.

    There's obvious a culture of not giving a toss running through Microsoft all the way down to the engineers.  No one is embarrassed about the Longhorn reset, no one is embarrassed about the state of Internet Explorer, no one is embarrassed by delay after delay.

    There's obviously a culture there of thinking Microsoft is a cushy number where results don't matter, and its time to spare the carrot and use the stick.

  • User profile image
    PaoloM

    blatzcoder wrote:
    And, Jamie, do you build all your websites in .NET? Unless he is referring to "ASP.NET"...

    What do you mean? Is ASP.NET not part of .NET?

  • User profile image
    PaoloM

    Cider wrote:
    no one is embarrassed about the state of Internet Explorer

    That's not true. During the MIX keynote yesterday Dave said how they felt about what happened after IE6.

    *crickets*

  • User profile image
    BruceMorgan

    Cider wrote:
    Manip wrote:

    I think the engineers are fine, they are doing what they've always done... No, No, No... What you have to do is go in and fire a bunch of managers and scoble-like characters ("technologists").




    Bull.  That's the easy way out that too many people in big organisations use.  Trust me, I work at a University and see some of the most incompetent people working there who blame managers for their own incompetency.  Its the pitiful excuse that Mini-Microsoft twunt uses.

    The whole thing just comes across as people who do not really care about this.  And that is the illness.  Is Allchin at all embarrassed by the delay?  No.  That says a million things.

    There's obvious a culture of not giving a toss running through Microsoft all the way down to the engineers.  No one is embarrassed about the Longhorn reset, no one is embarrassed about the state of Internet Explorer, no one is embarrassed by delay after delay.

    There's obviously a culture there of thinking Microsoft is a cushy number where results don't matter, and its time to spare the carrot and use the stick.


    Wow.  Cider, you are so incredibly wrong on here I hardly know where to start.  Suffice it to say you don't know you are talking about.  At all.

  • User profile image
    NuTcAsE

    I have to say Microsoft is playing a very dangerous game here. By explaining Vista delays to Security enhancement and the quotes like "We're trying to crank up the security level higher than ever" are going to raise the operating system's security expectations to a un-realistic levels.

    If vista gets hit by any virus / malware / a hole is exposed within a short period of time, this product will be marked as a failure and be synonymous to Windows and Microsoft. From 2004 to 2007... Vista better live up to its expectations. Period.

     

  • User profile image
    MasterPi

    Well, the November date is still there for Business release.  Just retail of Vista for consumers and loading of Vista on new PCs wont be until January 2007.

    Microsoft wrote:
    Microsoft Corp. today confirmed that Windows Vista™, the next generation of the Windows® client operating system, is on target to go into broad consumer beta to approximately 2 million users in the second quarter of 2006. Microsoft is on track to complete the product this year, with business availability in November 2006 and broad consumer availability in January 2007.
    ...

    Because of the way businesses test and deploy software, it makes sense for Microsoft volume licensing customers to receive windows Windows Vista starting in November of this year. Availability for consumers and on new PCs will follow in January.

    http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2006/mar06/03-21WindowsVistaDeliveryPR.mspx

  • User profile image
    Rowan

    "Allchin said some of the additional time was for ensuring security levels, and the company is also working on ironing out usability issues."

    What have you been working on for the last few years?

  • User profile image
    BruceMorgan

    blatzcoder wrote:
    BruceMorgan wrote: Wow.  Cider, you are so incredibly wrong on here I hardly know where to start.  Suffice it to say you don't know you are talking about.  At all.
    I think the issue is that some of us not so well compensated as you are, Bruce.  I'm sure several of your staff members could retire very young. Meanwhile, for the rest of us, its: paycheck, pay bills, go broke, spend 2 weeks with no money, paycheck, pay bills...
    Compensation isn't the issue, and certainly not my compensation.  Nobody is retiring very young from cashing options, etc.  There's ample evidence those days are long past, so I'm not going to rathole on that.

    If your own personal compensation isn't sufficient for your needs, Blatz, perhaps you should do something about it.

  • User profile image
    Maurits

    Rowan wrote:
    "Allchin said some of the additional time was for ensuring security levels, and the company is also working on ironing out usability issues."

    What have you been working on for the last few years?


    Features.

    This is an unfortunate but common pattern...

    Add feature
    Add feature
    Add feature

    Take a step back
    Grimace

    Fix
    Fix
    Fix
    Hyperventilate
    FixFixFix
    Ship
    Relax
    Triage
    Triage
    Triage
    Fix
    Fix
    Fix

    A less common approach (but superior, IMHO) is

    Think
    Think
    Think
    Sketch
    Model
    Test
    Rearchitecture
    Add feature
    Ship
    Relax
    Fix

    A disadvantage of the latter approach is it has fewer features.

  • User profile image
    DMassy

    blatzcoder wrote:
    BruceMorgan wrote: Compensation isn't the issue, and certainly not my compensation.  Nobody is retiring very young from cashing options, etc.
    Okay, you are the exception.  And I forgot...you only hire people who masochistic in terms of a work ethic (but HR calls it "passion").  I think one of your other employees mentioned something about "all out sacrifice" also...so I suppose in the end, after 80-120 hour weeks that giant paycheck isn't so big anymore.


    Blatz,
    You clearly do not know anything about the compensation system at Microsoft. It would be a good idea if you stopped jumping to conclusions that have no factual basis or supporting evidence. Bruce is not the exception and he is just one of the many many passionate people who work at Microsoft.
    Thanks
    -Dave

  • User profile image
    jamie

    mVPstar wrote:

    Well, the November date is still there for Business release.  Just retail of Vista for consumers and loading of Vista on new PCs wont be until January 2007.




    ...which means the marketing machine will have to lay low through autumn and winter - pushing Xbox and maybe office

    so for the launch in jan - probably means marketing machine gets going - which would mean - feb or march

    i was hoping to see the ads and hype start anytime... oh well

    *they have to "july to not affect their financials"

  • User profile image
    BruceMorgan

    DMassy wrote:
    blatzcoder wrote:
    BruceMorgan wrote: Compensation isn't the issue, and certainly not my compensation.  Nobody is retiring very young from cashing options, etc.
    Okay, you are the exception.  And I forgot...you only hire people who masochistic in terms of a work ethic (but HR calls it "passion").  I think one of your other employees mentioned something about "all out sacrifice" also...so I suppose in the end, after 80-120 hour weeks that giant paycheck isn't so big anymore.


    Blatz,
    You clearly do not know anything about the compensation system at Microsoft. It would be a good idea if you stopped jumping to conclusions that have no factual basis or supporting evidence. Bruce is not the exception and he is just one of the many many passionate people who work at Microsoft.
    Thanks
    -Dave
    People don't often work 80-120 hour work weeks.  Again, you're woefully misinformed.  There are certain times when 80 hour work weeks are needed (like MIX06 prep last week, for some people), but we're not going to "crunch mode" our way all the way to the Windows Vista launch or the IE7 launch.

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