Coffeehouse Thread

38 posts

The switching dilema

Back to Forum: Coffeehouse
  • User profile image
    Steve411

    I'v never considered switching to another browser. It is not that i'am an old user and that I have been using internet explorer for a few years now.. It is the fact that i'v never seen an exploit in the browser.. It is, in my opinion, the securest browser out there.. Think about it, if hackers began to write malicios code for the rest of the wanna-be-internet explorer-browsers everyone would fall back to the original best. Internet Explorer in this case.. Face it, Microsoft is the best software corporation out there, it is the reason why the United States the is "land of opportunities". The rest of the web browser corporations are bull, and only children compared to Internet Explorer.. My point is, you must know what you are doing if you want to stay safe. It is never the computers fault for viruses and such, it is the users fault, the one who tells it what to do! Mozilla is just a new interface that is all, same things are in there as they are in internet explorer.. (popup blocker etc) Not to mention firefox.. Tabs, i have to admit, are pretty neat to have but too many may "hang up" the application, especially on low performance computers.. Perhaps, in the future when malicious code begins to arise in Mozilla, Firefox, Opera, and Safari (not to mention the rest) Internet Explorer will once again be the "every day browser".

       Anyone consider switching? Expecially after this flaw found in SP2. I'm still sticking with it.

  • User profile image
    mkoby

    I assume you're being serious (if not ignore the this)...

    I don't understand how you can say that, considering that Microsoft was actually one of the more recent browsers to come to market (after Mosaic among others).  Netscape was light years ahead of Microsoft on the browsing front when IE came out (Ever looked at IE versions 1 and 2?).

    I mean everyone has their preferences (I perfer Firefox, because of the tabs primarily), but the number one targeted browser for attacks is IE.  And when a hole is found it can take up to 2-6 weeks to see a patch.  So, if that's your perference I'm not here to change your mind.  But when your computer gets hosed from an attack through IE (and it will happen eventually), I'll still be surfing with Firefox.  Also I have seen computers fall to the security holes in IE (but it was mainly due to user error, like they weren't keeping their computer patched)

  • User profile image
    Steve411

    mkoby wrote:
    I assume you're being serious (if not ignore the this)...

    I don't understand how you can say that, considering that Microsoft was actually one of the more recent browsers to come to market (after Mosaic among others).  Netscape was light years ahead of Microsoft on the browsing front when IE came out (Ever looked at IE versions 1 and 2?).

    I mean everyone has their preferences (I perfer Firefox, because of the tabs primarily), but the number one targeted browser for attacks is IE.  And when a hole is found it can take up to 2-6 weeks to see a patch.  So, if that's your perference I'm not here to change your mind.  But when your computer gets hosed from an attack through IE (and it will happen eventually), I'll still be surfing with Firefox.  Also I have seen computers fall to the security holes in IE (but it was mainly due to user error, like they weren't keeping their computer patched)

      Yes, i was/am being serious..
         There would be security flaws in every browser, Mozilla, Firefox, netscape even if ie wasnt there.. My point was not to switch or anything near that, but to simply state that the other browsers are nothing compared to ie in many ways.

  • User profile image
    Manip

    Steve411 wrote:
    but to simply state that the other browsers are nothing compared to ie in many ways


    Those ways are....

  • User profile image
    Steve411

    Manip wrote:
    Steve411 wrote: but to simply state that the other browsers are nothing compared to ie in many ways


    Those ways are....

      You figure it out


    Manage Cookies
    Security Zones
    Content Advisor
    Fault Collection
    Image Toolbar
    Media Bar
    Auto Image Resize
    Favorites
    History List
    Print Preview
    Auto Complete
    Search Companion
    Internet Explorer DHTML Platform
    Full CSS Level 1 Support (some ids classes are not supported! in a few of the rest)
    Full DOM Level 1 Support
    Content-Restricted IFrames
    Mouse Wheel Events
    XML
    .NET Integration
    Automatic Ellipses for text Overflow

  • User profile image
    Maurits

    I love Internet Explorer too.  I'd use it except that I also hate Internet Explorer.

    I love it because it is the most feature-rich browser out there, due to
    * The excellent development staff at Microsoft
    * The cooperation between browser code and Windows Explorer code
    * Web developers can pretty much count on visitors to their sites having IE

    I hate it because
    * Sometimes the excellent development staff at Microsoft makes a little mistake, someone posts it to a website, and script kiddies have free access to half the world's machines for a week or so
    * Because of the cooperation between browser code and OS code, these little mistakes usually have serious consequences
    * Every new version of IE is a little bit different from the one before it - so web developers sometimes have to cater to different versions of IE

  • User profile image
    ghostdev

    I started browsing back in the days of Mosaic ruling the roost. Then they became stagnant and Netscape took over with a much better browser. They stayed generally on top until they did their worst to implement table rendering. IE gained market share, but never really took over until NS became stagnant with keeping up. Maybe now some people will argue that IE is going to lose out unless they not only keep up with the other browsers, but lead the pack.

    I no longer worry about browser compatibility. I'm a programmer and I don't care much other than set the font and color and layout with tables. CSS compatibility is lost on me.

    Security holes in IE aren't much of an issue with me because I rarely surf, and that is only to trustworthy sites. Script kiddies exploiting browsers through web site codes is also lost on me.

    Even if my logic is completely wrong, I don't care. I don't surf any sites that require anything other than the browser that came with the OS. Firefox could actually read my mind to surf to any site on any topic I am thinking about and compile the information into a summarized and indexed report and I wouldn't switch. If they won over a good chunk of the users on my site, I might think about putting it on. But for right now, I get more people with Windows 95 and NS 4 on my site than firefox users so they are of little concern to me.

  • User profile image
    Manip

    My biggest and in general only problem with FF is that it takes *SO* long to load and is *SO* resource hungry. I can only base this on my observations (I don't want a debate about which loads faster) and have looked into ways to speed it up.. am still looking.

    Firefox seems to load faster on Linux (X11/KDE) than it does on Windows which is a little annoying.

    I am constantly opening/closing the browser and that is why it is so important that it loads fast.. I would want to be looking at google just after I double click not 3~7seconds later.
     
    Edit: I just tested it and on cold start it took 10 seconds to load! That is really bad however you swing it (P4, 2.2Ghz, 512Mb Ram).

  • User profile image
    Steve411

    Manip wrote:
    My biggest and in general only problem with FF is that it takes *SO* long to load and is *SO* resource hungry. I can only base this on my observations (I don't want a debate about which loads faster) and have looked into ways to speed it up.. am still looking.

    Firefox seems to load faster on Linux (X11/KDE) than it does on Windows which is a little annoying.

    I am constantly opening/closing the browser and that is why it is so important that it loads fast.. I would want to be looking at google just after I double click not 3~7seconds later.
     
    Edit: I just tested it and on cold start it took 10 seconds to load! That is really bad however you swing it (P4, 2.2Ghz, 512Mb Ram).

     That seems pretty strange, 10 seconds?
     
    My config:
     P4 , 1.2 GHz,384 MB ram, loads in about 2 1/2 seconds..
    Internet Speed:
     6.002 MBps
     768.25 KBps
    600.005 KB 
    Time elapsed: 0.781 seconds

  • User profile image
    Kaelan

    I switched to Firefox a while back and I've regretted it ever since. I don't know if it's just me, but Firefox is such a horrible browser for my everyday usage that I can't believe I ever considered using it. Both of the mozilla browsers are so gigantic now that it's common for them to randomly do bizarre things. Often through my daily browsing, random blank firefox windows would open up, or it would just close by itself, or I'd click on a link and it would freeze up. Even considering the bugs present in IE and its lack of features, that was unacceptable. It didn't take me long to get fed up with the fact that the FF devteam doesn't like to fix bugs, and decide to try another browser.

    However, I did get used to nice features like the tabbed browsing, so I couldn't really go back to IE. It turns out that good ol' Mozilla is pretty tolerable, so that's what I use now. It lacks a lot of the 'ooh shiny' features that Firefox has, but it gets the job done and has the stuff I've gotten used to.

  • User profile image
    marun

    Since IE is the most widely used browser and MS is behind it every hacker tries to hack it in the hope of getting publicity. I wouldnt be surprised if MS is actually behind Firefox distribution, as it makes sense for MS to get out of developing free internet browsers which, when publicized with security exploits, will be extrapolated by scare-mongerers who also happen to hold the corporate purses when it comes to enterprise purchases. Further I dont see any productivity enhancement or ease of use in tabbed browsing, to me it just adds unnecessary code load.

    If I were in microsoft I would go ahead and release IE 7 just to keep the standards & future market in hold. In IE 7 I would offer the user to tick off the parts he needs and auto-compile his own lean, mean browser.

  • User profile image
    Varsity

    Steve411 wrote:
    Manage Cookies
    Security Zones
    Content Advisor
    Image Toolbar
    Media Bar
    Automatic Ellipses for text Overflow
    I've cut down the list to things unique to IE. I'm not sure about the last point, could someone explain it a little?

    Kaelan wrote:
    Often through my daily browsing, random blank firefox windows would open up, or it would just close by itself, or I'd click on a link and it would freeze up.
    Sounds pretty screwed up. Did you ever submit those problems to bugzilla?

  • User profile image
    Kaelan

    Actually, yes. I think I've probably filed a total of 20 or 30 bugs in Bugzilla.

    I was personally cussed-out in an email once by the Firefox lead developer, so you can understand if I'm biased. Smiley

  • User profile image
    rjdohnert

    I like Netscape 7.2, to me its an awesome browser and I use it for everything  now.

  • User profile image
    FluffyDevil​Bunny

    Um Kaelan,

    What version of Firefox are you using? Not a single one of those problems are present on my machine and I really hope that you don't think that a 4 meg browser is gigantic!?!?!

    Every single person that I have demoed Firefox to is now using it as thier primary browser and I have heard no complaints. I am not anti-Microsoft and infact we are a Certified Partner, but we are part of the "Firefox Evengalism" group.

    If you have found a bug, you should immediately report it before version 1 is released (Sept / Oct). The Firefox team does fix bugs. The bug tracker is open for the world to see and you can look at it yourself at mozilla.org. Nobody can fix what is never reported.


  • User profile image
    Kaelan

    FluffyDevilBunny wrote:
    Um Kaelan,

    What version of Firefox are you using? Not a single one of those problems are present on my machine and I really hope that you don't think that a 4 meg browser is gigantic!?!?!

    Every single person that I have demoed Firefox to is now using it as thier primary browser and I have heard no complaints. I am not anti-Microsoft and infact we are a Certified Partner, but we are part of the "Firefox Evengalism" group.

    If you have found a bug, you should immediately report it before version 1 is released (Sept / Oct). The Firefox team does fix bugs. The bug tracker is open for the world to see and you can look at it yourself at mozilla.org. Nobody can fix what is never reported.

    I'm talking more about the fact that the Mozilla codebase is almost as big as Windows' than the actual size of the binary.

    And yes, I have filed bugs, as I stated before. In response, I generally got ignored (mainly because the bugs were so random that it was almost impossible to reproduce them), and had to just wait for the dev team to notice the bug later on and fix it.

    As for what version I used, I used Firefox from 0.6 up to 0.9. I had to switch to nightlies after 0.8, because the milestones had showstopper bugs that prevented me from doing my daily browsing routine (and often would prevent me from starting the browser at all.) If necessary, I can locate some of the bugzilla entries for you.

    I don't dispute that the firefox dev team tries, but I don't think they are organized very well. All of my observation and usage experiences with Firefox indicate to me that the dev team is more concerned with 'cool' features and getting something out the door than they are with making a solid product. And really, that's their choice - it's free, so I'm not going to scream at them about it.

  • User profile image
    Varsity

    If they can't reproduce a bug, I'm not suprised they don't put in the extreme amount of effort need to find it in the first place, so that they can fix it for the handful of people who are having the (give that, probably unrelated to FF) problem.

    But being insulted by the lead dev just isn't cool.

  • User profile image
    thechris

    i use firefox because it works on all of my platforms.  this is on Win2000/XP, Win98, Linux, and Solaris. 

Comments closed

Comments have been closed since this content was published more than 30 days ago, but if you'd like to continue the conversation, please create a new thread in our Forums, or Contact Us and let us know.