Coffeehouse Thread

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Say goodbye to PDF support in Office 2007

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  • User profile image
    W3bbo

    Adobe sues.

    Joy Smiley

  • User profile image
    Manip

    Adobe produce cr@p software anyway... Their reader is simply awful, I can't imagine making a simple application much worse than it is.

    Adobe == Real (5 years ago)

  • User profile image
    Cairo

    W3bbo wrote:


    The headline says, "Microsoft Expects Adobe to File Antitrust Suit", not "Adobe has filed suit against Microsoft".

    I thought that PDF was an open specification, though, and any developer may write software that produces or consumes PDF-formatted data.

    Adobe PDF Reference wrote:

    http://partners.adobe.com/public/developer/pdf/index_reference.html
    Adobe publishes the PDF specification to foster the creation of an ecosystem around the PDF format. The PDF Reference provides a description of the Portable Document Format and is intended for application developers wishing to develop applications that create PDF files directly, as well as read or modify PDF document content.






  • User profile image
    AndyC

    Cairo wrote:
    

    I thought that PDF was an open specification, though, and any developer may write software that produces or consumes PDF-formatted data.


    It is. Adobe may now have to pay the price for trying to guarantee the success of their format by opening it up.

  • User profile image
    Cairo

    Ahh, I see.

    Adobe wrote:

    1.5 Intellectual Property
    The general idea of using an interchange format for electronic documents is in the public domain. Anyone is free to devise a set of unique data structures and operators that define an interchange format for electronic documents. However, Adobe Systems Incorporated owns the copyright for the particular data structures and operators and the written specification constituting the interchange format called the Portable Document Format. Thus, these elements of the Portable Document Format may not be copied without Adobe’s permission.
    Adobe will enforce its copyright. Adobe’s intention is to maintain the integrity of the Portable Document Format standard. This enables the public to distinguish between the Portable Document Format and other interchange formats for electronic documents. However, Adobe desires to promote the use of the Portable Document Format for information interchange among diverse products and applications. Accordingly, Adobe gives anyone copyright permission, subject to
    the conditions stated below, to:
    •Prepare files whose content conforms to the Portable Document Format
    •Write drivers and applications that produce output represented in the Portable Document Format
    •Write software that accepts input in the form of the Portable Document Format and displays, prints, or otherwise interprets the contents
    •Copy Adobe’s copyrighted list of data structures and operators, as well as the example code and PostScript language function definitions in the written
    specification, to the extent necessary to use the Portable Document Format for the purposes above The conditions of such copyright permission are:
    •Authors of software that accepts input in the form of the Portable Document Format must make reasonable efforts to ensure that the software they create respects the access permissions and permissions controls listed in Table 3.20 of this specification, to the extent that they are used in any particular document.These access permissions express the rights that the document’s author has granted to users of the document. It is the responsibility of Portable Document Format consumer software to respect the author’s intent.
    •Anyone who uses the copyrighted list of data structures and operators, as stated above, must include an appropriate copyright notice.
    This limited right to use the copyrighted list of data structures and operators does not include the right to copy this book, other copyrighted material from Adobe, or the software in any of Adobe’s products that use the Portable Document Format, in whole or in part, nor does it include the right to use any Adobe patents, except as may be permitted by an official Adobe Patent Clarification Notice (see the Bibliography).
    Acrobat, Acrobat Capture, Adobe Intelligent Document Platform, Adobe Reader, ePaper, the “Get Adobe Reader” Web logo, the “Adobe PDF” Web logo, and all other trademarks, service marks, and logos used by Adobe (the “Marks”) are the registered trademarks or trademarks of Adobe Systems Incorporated in the United States and other countries. Nothing in this book is intended to grant you any right or license to use the Marks for any purpose.



    The dispute must lie in there somewhere. Guess: Microsoft "embraced and extended" the PDF format and took it out-of-spec, but still wanted to call it "PDF".

    The article was too short to really know what the whole (or true) story is.

    Clearly, PDF is used by other software. OpenOffice directly exports PDF files. Any application on OSX can read and write PDF files, using APIs built into the OS, and the print subsystem saves anything printable as PDF on request.

    So what's happened with Microsoft's implementation?


  • User profile image
    AndyC

    Cairo wrote:
    

    The dispute must lie in there somewhere. Guess: Microsoft "embraced and extended" the PDF format and took it out-of-spec, but still wanted to call it "PDF".



    I don't think so, I think this is Adobe throwing their toys out of the pram. The Office team mentioned in their C9 video that PDF was there for interop purposes and the very reason they couldn't open PDF documents was because there wasn't any way to round-trip a document reliably.

  • User profile image
    Harlequin

    Why do people still use the word "monopoly" with Microsoft. It's mind numbing Expressionless

    Grab a dictionary Cool

  • User profile image
    W3bbo

    Harlequin wrote:
    Why do people still use the word "monopoly" with Microsoft. It's mind numbing

    Grab a dictionary


    You're denying Microsoft hold a monopoly over the desktop PC operating system market?

  • User profile image
    Manip

    Harlequin wrote:
    Why do people still use the word "monopoly" with Microsoft. It's mind numbing

    Grab a dictionary


    There's no such thing as a perfect monopoly in the same way that good and evil don't really exist, but from a legal stand point Microsoft is a monopoly.  

    Anti-Monopoly law is called "Anti-Trust" law in the USA.

  • User profile image
    Harlequin

    W3bbo wrote:
    
    Harlequin wrote: Why do people still use the word "monopoly" with Microsoft. It's mind numbing

    Grab a dictionary


    You're denying Microsoft hold a monopoly over the desktop PC operating system market?


    "Monopoly" does not mean most. If you have a monopoly, you have exclusive rights, usually signed off by a government. If Microsoft was a monopoly in operating systems there would be no Apple, *nix, etc etc. Every single computer sold would and would have to have Windows on it, and there would be no other choices.

    Monopoly.

  • User profile image
    Manip

    Harlequin wrote:
    "Monopoly" does not mean most. If you have a monopoly, you have exclusive rights, usually signed off by a government. If Microsoft was a monopoly in operating systems there would be no Apple, *nix, etc etc. Every single computer sold would and would have to have Windows on it, and there would be no other choices.

    Monopoly.


    YAY! Let's have a dictionary war! That will be conducive to the discussion. Idiot.

    We spent months talking about monopolies, cause, effect and remedies in economics... Do you really think I don't know what a monopoly is?

  • User profile image
    Cairo

    Harlequin wrote:


    "Monopoly" does not mean most. If you have a monopoly, you have exclusive rights, usually signed off by a government. If Microsoft was a monopoly in operating systems there would be no Apple, *nix, etc etc. Every single computer sold would and would have to have Windows on it, and there would be no other choices.

    Monopoly.


    As manip said, there's a difference between "legal monopoly" and "total, absolute monopoly" and "government-granted monopoly". Microsoft was found in a court of law to have a monopoly.

    You're free to argue with the court about whether or not Microsoft has a monopoly, according to whatever definition of that word you prefer. Arguing with us on this message board won't do anyone any good.




  • User profile image
    Harlequin

    Manip wrote:
    YAY! Let's have a dictionary war! That will be conducive to the discussion. Idiot.

    We spent months talking about monopolies, cause, effect and remedies in economics... Do you really think I don't know what a monopoly is?


    Gotta say, you've been quite moody on these forums lately Cool

  • User profile image
    Tom Servo

    So what now? Will the PDF functionality be available seperately or not at all?

  • User profile image
    Cairo

    Tom Servo wrote:
    So what now? Will the PDF functionality be available seperately or not at all?


    Sounds like "separately, but at no cost".

  • User profile image
    Harlequin

    That's quite disappointing. That Channel 9 video on the PDF support was kind of cool. Looked like the guy working on it was quite stoked about it...

  • User profile image
    out180

    Manip wrote:
    
    Harlequin wrote: "Monopoly" does not mean most. If you have a monopoly, you have exclusive rights, usually signed off by a government. If Microsoft was a monopoly in operating systems there would be no Apple, *nix, etc etc. Every single computer sold would and would have to have Windows on it, and there would be no other choices.

    Monopoly.


    YAY! Let's have a dictionary war! That will be conducive to the discussion. Idiot.

    We spent months talking about monopolies, cause, effect and remedies in economics... Do you really think I don't know what a monopoly is?


    ROFL

    It is utterly absurd to chastise someone for what you believe to be a non-conductive comment toward the discussion at hand and then call that person an idoit. 

  • User profile image
    Scott Bryen

    Why do Adobe threaten them now? Adobe like us have known about this for months. I think Adobe are being stupid. What do u think of when you hear PDF... Adobe.. so its just like free advertising in a way for Adobe. So go Microsoft dont back down to Adobe!!! Thats what i say Big Smile.

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