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Ease of use

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    Hello all: I applaud this initiative, that said:

    Ease of use question:


    I find allot of the stuff in MSDN too hard.  In the old days- there was quick updates and working samples of html code (back then it was html)


    Most of the stuff in MSDN is now all instructions - with very little USEABLE samples.. for idiots like me.


    I’d really like a whole area for (new) developers that can learn stuff - by playing with sample code - and not to be treated like we ever took some course in school. 

    MSDN locks out every web developer and EVERY designer for sure.  There really isn’t any form of Design section on Microsoft’s site.  Does this mean I shall be converting to the Gimp?  Hardly not. But I do ask – What does Avalon/Aero mean in simple language: 


    I hear it’s vector based. Does that mean .WMF vector files will work in IE – without jaggies?  That illustrator .ai or more importantly to me – Corel CMX or hopefully CDR files – ( all vector) will work in IE ( or what ever it becomes?)  I keep hearing PNG – that no app I use even exports too..


    Sometimes it may be good for MS to actually survey what designers use to make stuff – just like they do for Business Services Market – of which I have no need.


    We are the artists who get by – some of us by the seat of our pants – using your new technologies..  would be great for REALLY EASY new stuff we can get out to clients.


    Personally, I’m one step away from learning STANDARDS – and I’m sure you wouldn’t want that would you.


    Please RELEASE MORE TOY CODE FOR IE – like in the OLD days


    • ive already hacked the shadow menu at – make it easier – make it do more


    I DO NOT NO HOW TO PROGRAM – but that’s what I do






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    I agree with you mate - this is true for the techie stuff too. I'm a developer and I find it difficult in finding my way across MSDN.

    In fact, I always ask a friend or coworker about any problems that I have with code - it's easier than trying to find it out using MSDN. If that does not work out, I try Google.

    MSDN is great - its just too organized for practical use. Its been built purely as reference - but that makes it impossible to search for specific problems. At the risk of losing my geekdom, I would say its even intimidating!

    Here is a suggestion - maybe you can make MSDN into this big online KB and have a simple expert-system like front end to search for things.

    I think MSDN could use a good revamp or two Smiley

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    I believe that Aero and the User Experience guidelines provided will be MSDN's equivalent to the Design section you are looking for.

    Avalon is vector based but its using its own rendering system. Right now it is similiar to SVG, but in the future we'll have XAML designers and hopefully a Illustrator to XAML export.

    As far as Web Standards I would say start learning it today, it won't hurt anybody it will just aid you and your clients.

    I'm a designer/programmer who's become pretty familiar with Avalon and I think you'll like what you see once it is released. Very cool features on the horizon.

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    Question for Adam
    (thanks for repy Wink

    I have checked that and find it very technical.

    I guess I am just asking - if it's vector... why not .wmf / .ai / .cdr / .cmx

    I have tried SVG ( with the adobe plugin ) and PNG nothing I use really supports.

    ** Feature Request **

    If Aero does indeed support vectors - can you guys make it support all vectors

    Example: If I import a Windows Metafile into Corel or Illustrator - I can change the size with no loss of resolution.  I have always wanted IE to support wmfs - and it does SORT of..  it's just that they are very Jaggy - WAY more so than exporting to SWF ( which I find watery".

    So again - why png? why svg?
    I have NO need for XML data in my images - I just want scalable vectors than work like jpg & gif


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    does "bump" mean "still topical? / re-read?"

    this post is almost a year old - although i still agree with all of it - and no ive gone on about all this too much - it wasnt me that brought it back to life!

    (but thanks!)

    wmf rules! (or should!)

    Tongue Out

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    Sven Groot

    jamie wrote:
    does "bump" mean "still topical? / re-read?"

    I think "bump" in this context mainly means "donkslayer is bored". Wink

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    Channel9 has been a huge disappointment because we have too many donkslayers and no more Adam Kinney’s.

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    Jamie is totally right. I don't find in MSDN also the things i'm looking for.

    I use usually google groups. They are very good. It's a search engine that searches newsgroups (also the newsgroups for .NET and C# etc).

    One big problem of MSDN is that the constants (that come with the C and C++ libraries) are nowhere described. At least i didn't find them... If you want to do a p/Invoke you have to search all over the internet for the values of the constants. Terrible.

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    Sven Groot

    littleguru wrote:
    One big problem of MSDN is that the constants (that come with the C and C++ libraries) are nowhere described. At least i didn't find them... If you want to do a p/Invoke you have to search all over the internet for the values of the constants. Terrible.

    This is actually quite understandable. Puttin the values of constants in your documentation defeats the purpose of using constants in the first place. Yes, this is inconvenient for people doing PInvoke, but remember, the docs weren't written with that purpose in mind, they were written for C(++) developers.

    I typically use the Platform SDK headers to find the value of the constants.

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    Edit: Removed unnecessary dig at Eagle.  Sorry, I'm tired.

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    Karthik wrote:
    ......If that does not work out, I try Google....

    Google is the best place to find anything. If you aint google, you aint surfing!

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