Coffeehouse Thread

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Microsoft's Longhorn Failure Is Linux's Chance

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  • Karim

    Bogusrabin wrote:

    No. You can't say "Linux look so bad graphically".
    You should learn more about Unix/Linux/X11/etc. before you say
    anything about X11 and Linux.


    That's right, you can't say "Linux look so bad graphically..."  You have to specifically say, "KDE look so bad graphically" or "Gnome look so bad graphically."

    There's no accounting for taste, for one thing.  For another, you don't have to know how to recompile the kernel in order to have an opinion on whether screenshot A looks better than screenshot B.

    You don't have to own a car in order to have an opinion on whether it looks good.

    My opinion is that the average person would rate the aesthetic quality of Mac OS at about a 9 (out of 10); Windows XP would get a 7; and the average "Linux" desktop would rate about a 2.  (Maybe 3 with a nice wallpaper.)

    Of course, Linux gets a 2 instead of a ZERO to the extent that they've ripped off the Windows UI (see the KDE file picker dialog at http://www.linuxworld.com/story/32640.htm)

    Bogusrabin wrote:

    Works here perfectly, and yes ... automatically.


    Interesting opinion.  Personally, I had no idea, none, what a supremely wonderful piece of coding Windows Update was, until I went to the Red Hat Network to respond to the flood of "errata" emails I got about vulnerabilities in my Linux system.  Applying a "simple" patch turned out to be a nightmare of prerequisites and dependencies and bizarre refusals to install.

    Bogusrabin wrote:

    But I think it's just very sad to notice that people has no a glue
    what is happening in Linux and Open Source world, but are still
    talking about them.


    Hmmmm.  Funny how that never happens in the Linux world, where people who "has no a glue what is happening" in Windows are still talking about them.

  • Manip2

    Gotta agree. You notice it is the people generally that have never had to maintain a Linux system or have never used a Linux desktop for an extended period that have the most to say about how wonderful it is.

    I myself have been in dependency hell and have also had to deal with the erratic desktops (both KDE and Gnome). They are both user-unfriendly if you ask me. I don't expect them to be like Windows but they don't even stick to any way of doing things.. I mean the file open/save dialogs are rarely the same between three applications.
     
    I also find the desktop slow to react to my needs, as in if I click something I have to wait a few seconds for it to react on a high speed machine which gets under my skin.

    The graphics do look nice.. but I don't care about graphics, I care about usability and speed. Or at least speed up to a point.

    It is almost impossible to setup your graphical desktop without opening a shell at least once.

     

     

     

  • Bogusrabin

    Hi.

    Karim wrote:

    Of course, Linux gets a 2 instead of a ZERO to the extent that they've ripped off the Windows UI (see the KDE file picker dialog at http://www.linuxworld.com/story/32640.htm)


    It's KDE's "problem".

    One "problem" is that there is a huge circus around big companies products, so it's pretty easy to say that some things are ripped from somewhere else.
    People believe(?) that all database fs, vectors based graphics, etc. are only Windows/Mac stuff ...

    Bogusrabin wrote:
    Works here perfectly, and yes ... automatically.

    Karim wrote:

    Interesting opinion.  Personally, I had no idea, none, what a supremely wonderful piece of coding Windows Update was, until I went to the Red Hat Network to respond to the flood of "errata" emails I got about vulnerabilities in my Linux system.


    Redhat != Mandrake != Debian != Gentoo != ...

    My wifes Mandrake works great. And my Gentoo box does updates automatically too without any problems.

    Karim wrote:

    Hmmmm.  Funny how that never happens in the Linux world, where people who "has no a glue what is happening" in Windows are still talking about them.


    I think people does know pretty well what is happening in Windows world. Thanks all circus, PC magazines, etc.

    Manip2 wrote:

    I mean the file open/save dialogs are rarely the same between three applications.


    Yes, that was problem earlier. Maybe there are still programs where are old "button orders" etc. Please make bug report or write a patch.
    I haven't notice that kind of problems.

    Manip2 wrote:

    I also find the desktop slow to react to my needs, as in if I click something I have to wait a few seconds for it to react on a high speed machine which gets under my skin.


    ? ... which kernel, WM, distro, etc.
    Ok, I have really good machines so my desktops are lightning fast.
    ( Duron 1GHz, Radeon 7500, etc. / Pentium-75, Cirrus, etc. )
    I do have problem with Windows XP/2000. If I move, for example Winamp, over IE, redraw is really slow (trailings). Does someone have advices?

    Ok, no offence. And yes, I do use Windows 2000/XP, BSD, IRIX too. It's nice read people's opinions. I'm not interested does people use Unix/Linux or not.

    Sorry my English is really bad, but hope you understand what I _tried_ to say Smiley

  • Jeremy W

    Bogusrabin wrote:
    I think people does know pretty well what is happening in Windows world. Thanks all circus, PC magazines, etc.


    Really? Because I still see myself correcting simple things constantly. In fact, if I wanted to I could spend all day dealing with Microsoft misconceptions.

    Heck, last week I spent half an hour educating one of the guys in charge of IBM's largest datacentre in Canada that, no, waiting 30 days before patching IS NOT the wisest way to do things.

    Fairly basic stuff. That's not even getting into the deeper aspects of applications, how open source guys still feel IE is too tied to the OS (even though the destruction of the Local Machine Zone means effectively it isn't anymore), etc.

    I know I'm ranting, but, no. You only Know (capital K) what you work with on a daily basis, and most people don't even Know that to a large enough extent to be an expert.

    So, to claim you Know something simply because it's in the press is to believe everything in the press is accurate, unbiased and deep enough for you to grasp and communicate to someone else... Based purely on an article in a magazine or on a website.

    Keeping up with the news about a company and keeping up with the realities of what are going on are 2 very different things Smiley

  • Bogusrabin

    Jeremy W. wrote:

    Keeping up with the news about a company and keeping up with the realities of what are going on are 2 very different things Smiley


    Yeah, Smiley. I meant people know things like Longhorn "it's new MS OS", they have some glue when it's coming, etc. because there a lot of articles and stuff in magazines etc.

  • Jeremy W

    Bogusrabin wrote:
    Jeremy W. wrote:
    Keeping up with the news about a company and keeping up with the realities of what are going on are 2 very different things Smiley


    Yeah, Smiley. I meant people know things like Longhorn "it's new MS OS", they have some glue when it's coming, etc. because there a lot of articles and stuff in magazines etc.


    Yeah, that's probably a pretty fair statement Smiley

  • Manip2

    Keskos wrote:
    Anybody heard about something called google?


    I don't know about anybody.. but I for one haven't heard of this magical 'google'. What is it? Is it like GMail? 

  • Keskos

    Manip2 wrote:
    Keskos wrote:Anybody heard about something called google?


    I don't know about anybody.. but I for one haven't heard of this magical 'google'. What is it? Is it like GMail? 


    Geee, I thought you will drop it, oh well go ahead and continue your flamings. I am supposed to ignore you, but you may manage to get my attention if you have a chance.

  • Manip2

    When was I flaming you?

  • lars

    "Microsoft's Longhorn Failure Is Linux's Chance"

    That headline is really screwed up. How can it be a failure (or waporware) when it's not going to be released until 2006? Generic Forum Image

  • phunky_avoc​ado

    Oh no, not again! 

    Manip2 wrote:
    When was I flaming you?

  • lars

    Ey! So it's you that's got that paintingBig Smile

  • Karim

    lars wrote:
    "Microsoft's Longhorn Failure Is Linux's Chance"

    That headline is really screwed up. How can it be a failure (or waporware) when it's not going to be released until 2006?



    That headline is even more screwed up now.

  • Karim

    Looks like someone who forgot to take their meds changed the headline over at eWeek.

    If you follow the original link, you get the "Microsoft's Longhorn Failure is Linux's Chance" headline:

    http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1640879,00.asp

    But over at Neowin, they announced the article today:

    "Longhorn's Demise Gives Linux Its Chance"

    http://www.neowin.net/comments.php?id=23841&category=main


    Then when you click on the link for the "Full Story," you get eWeek's site showing the same headline:



    http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1642464,00.asp

    The article's date has also been changed to today, Sep. 3, 2004.

    You might want to see the "demise" version now, before the eWeek people have had their second cup of coffee and/or before they get Slashdotted.

  • MichaelMyers

    Bogusrabin,

    I'm a bit new to this site, so perhaps you can help me out.

    If you obviously dislike MS products so much, why do you come to a MS "insider" site, and bash them?  I mean you got the idea that the site was pro-MS right? 

    I'm not flaming, although feel free to take it however you wish.  I'm here to learn more about "the inside scoop" at MS, as I use and love their products. However, I'm confused by the amount and level of vehemence I see posted here daily.  I'd really like an honest "from the heart" reason why you and so many others like you, come here to critcize MS so harshly?

    MM

  • Jeremy W

    To be honest, I'm glad some of these kinds of people are here. Otherwise we'd just be a big ol' fanboy site with everyone jumping around at every little announcement.

    Everytime there is a coherent debate here I learn something. My mind is broadened and I have a new appreciation for something or someone.

    I'm sure that's of more value than a "pure" pro-MS site Smiley

  • Tom Malone

    I think its great as on linux sites every one just slags off microsoft, which isn't really productive.

  • Bogusrabin

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