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The Saga of War Crimes Continues: Rape & Murder

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  • User profile image
    Shark_M



    Well, The US Army has charged 5 US soldiers with rape of a young Iraqi girl and then burning her body in cold blood along with her relatives.



    Didn't Pres. Bush said that Iraqi Intelligence used to have Rape Rooms? I guess his soldiers are no different.

    From Abu-Ghraib, Falluja, Haditha, etc... and now this , What is this doing to US image in the world?Sad



  • User profile image
    blindlizard

    The difference is that the Saddam rape rooms were government sanctioned.  Also, when American service memebers brake the law like this, they get prosecuted.  This should improve the US view in the world.  

  • User profile image
    Shark_M

    blindlizard wrote:
    The difference is that the Saddam rape rooms were government sanctioned.  Also, when American service memebers brake the law like this, they get prosecuted.  This should improve the US view in the world.  


    yeah, a slap in the hand. Look at Abu-Ghraib. And how do we know these soldiers were not told that its ok to break the law?

  • User profile image
    jb43081

    Shark_M wrote:
    
    blindlizard wrote: The difference is that the Saddam rape rooms were government sanctioned.  Also, when American service memebers brake the law like this, they get prosecuted.  This should improve the US view in the world.  


    yeah, a slap in the hand. Look at Abu-Ghraib. And how do we know these soldiers were not told that its ok to break the law?


    How do you know they were?

    I'm not saying that this is OK if it's true, but frankly I'm starting to have the opinion that Americans can do 1,000 good things right, and 1 horrible thing, the rest of the world will decide that everything we do is horrible, and we're horrible and the world would be better without us.

    Frankly, since our image seems to be "un-rehabilitatable" in the worlds eyes, why try?

  • User profile image
    out180

    Shark_M wrote:
    
    blindlizard wrote: ...


    ...

    Look at Abu-Ghraib. And how do we know these soldiers were not told that its ok to break the law?


    As far as Abu-Ghraid is concerned you don't know unless you were there.

  • User profile image
    Shark_M

    out180 wrote:
    
    Shark_M wrote:
    blindlizard wrote: ...


    ...

    Look at Abu-Ghraib. And how do we know these soldiers were not told that its ok to break the law?


    As far as Abu-Ghraid is concerned you don't know unless you were there.



    I have seen enough to know what they did was Crimes against humanity in Abu-Ghraib. It will tarnish US image for ever.

    So now , when you blaim other countries like China for human right abuses , they will say , look who is pointing fingers!

  • User profile image
    blindlizard

    Here are the convictions from Abu-Ghraib, not slaps on the wrists by my estimates (10 years in prison is no slap).

    Specialist Charles Graner was found guilty on January 14, 2005 of all charges, including conspiracy to maltreat detainees, failing to protect detainees from abuse, cruelty, and maltreatment, as well as charges of assault, indecency, adultery, and obstruction of justice. On January 15, 2005, he was sentenced to ten years in federal prison.

    Staff Sgt. Ivan Frederick pled guilty on October 20, 2004 to conspiracy, dereliction of duty, maltreatment of detainees, assault and committing an indecent act in exchange for other charges being dropped. His abuses included making three prisoners (I need to watch my language). He also punched one prisoner so hard in the chest that he needed resuscitation. He was sentenced to eight years in prison, forfeiture of pay, a dishonorable discharge and a reduction in rank to private.

    Jeremy Sivits was sentenced on May 19, 2004 by a special court-martial (less severe than "general"; confinement sentence limited to one year) to the maximum one-year sentence, in addition to being discharged for bad conduct and demoted, upon his plea of guilty.

    Specialist Armin Cruz of the 325th Military Intelligence Battalion was sentenced on September 11, 2004 to eight months confinement, reduction in rank to private and a bad conduct discharge in exchange for his testimony against other soldiers.[21]
     
    Sabrina Harman was sentenced on May 17, 2005 to six months in prison and a bad conduct discharge after being convicted on six of the seven counts. She had faced a maximum sentence of 5 years.

    Megan Ambuhl was convicted on October 30, 2004, of dereliction of duty and sentenced to reduction in rank to private and loss of a half-month’s pay.

    Lynndie England was convicted on September 26, 2005, of one count of conspiracy, four counts of maltreating detainees and one count of committing an indecent act. She was acquitted on a second conspiracy count. England had faced a maximum sentence of ten years, but was sentenced on September 27, 2005, to just 3 years. She received a dishonorable discharge.

    **edit - my formatting didn't take so had to try again 

    Shark_M wrote:
     blindlizard wrote: The difference is that the Saddam rape rooms were government sanctioned.  Also, when American service memebers brake the law like this, they get prosecuted.  This should improve the US view in the world.  yeah, a slap in the hand. Look at Abu-Ghraib. And how do we know these soldiers were not told that its ok to break the law?

  • User profile image
    out180

    Shark_M wrote:
    
    out180 wrote: 
    Shark_M wrote: 
    blindlizard wrote: ...


    ...

    Look at Abu-Ghraib. And how do we know these soldiers were not told that its ok to break the law?


    As far as Abu-Ghraid is concerned you don't know unless you were there.



    I have seen enough to know what they did was Crimes against humanity in Abu-Ghraib. It will tarnish US image for ever.

    So now , when you blaim other countries like China for human right abuses , they will say , look who is pointing fingers!


    Wait a minute.  Your question was if someone told them to do it.  My reply was simply who knows for sure.  No one will argue that the pictures and information that resulted from what happened at Abu was pretty bad stuff.  I was convinced long ago it took place.  I am not however convinced on whether or not it was sanctioned by someone in a command status or just perpetuated by idiots acting on their own.

  • User profile image
    Manip

    I kind of expect this from the US Army now...

    They think that Iraqi civilians are no better than animals, and you can easily find video, images and stories of US soldiers killing, torturing and assaulting civilians.

  • User profile image
    Shark_M

    blindlizard wrote:
    Here are the convictions from Abu-Ghraib, not slaps on the wrists by my estimates (10 years in prison is no slap). Specialist Charles Graner was found guilty on January 14, 2005 of all charges, including conspiracy to maltreat detainees, failing to protect detainees from abuse, cruelty, and maltreatment, as well as charges of assault, indecency, adultery, and obstruction of justice. On January 15, 2005, he was sentenced to ten years in federal prison.[citation needed] Staff Sgt. Ivan Frederick pled guilty on October 20, 2004 to conspiracy, dereliction of duty, maltreatment of detainees, assault and committing an indecent act in exchange for other charges being dropped. His abuses included making three prisoners (I need to watch my language). He also punched one prisoner so hard in the chest that he needed resuscitation. He was sentenced to eight years in prison, forfeiture of pay, a dishonorable discharge and a reduction in rank to private. [citation needed] Jeremy Sivits was sentenced on May 19, 2004 by a special court-martial (less severe than "general"; confinement sentence limited to one year) to the maximum one-year sentence, in addition to being discharged for bad conduct and demoted, upon his plea of guilty.[citation needed] Specialist Armin Cruz of the 325th Military Intelligence Battalion was sentenced on September 11, 2004 to eight months confinement, reduction in rank to private and a bad conduct discharge in exchange for his testimony against other soldiers.[21] Sabrina Harman was sentenced on May 17, 2005 to six months in prison and a bad conduct discharge after being convicted on six of the seven counts. She had faced a maximum sentence of 5 years.[citation needed] Megan Ambuhl was convicted on October 30, 2004, of dereliction of duty and sentenced to reduction in rank to private and loss of a half-month’s pay.[citation needed] Lynndie England was convicted on September 26, 2005, of one count of conspiracy, four counts of maltreating detainees and one count of committing an indecent act. She was acquitted on a second conspiracy count. England had faced a maximum sentence of ten years, but was sentenced on September 27, 2005, to just 3 years. She received a dishonorable discharge.[citation needed]
    Shark_M wrote: blindlizard wrote: The difference is that the Saddam rape rooms were government sanctioned.  Also, when American service memebers brake the law like this, they get prosecuted.  This should improve the US view in the world.  yeah, a slap in the hand. Look at Abu-Ghraib. And how do we know these soldiers were not told that its ok to break the law?


    There were some deaths due to what they did. These soldiers demonstrated acts of coward behavior. They should get life in prison or even death for betrayal of the Code of Honor and betrayal of US values.

    The stories are comming one by one, and from the looks of it, I did not know that US soldiers can be this cowardly, murdering innocent civilians and raping young defenseless girls in front of their mom and dad.

    More and more these gang that took over office, are making America look like Germany during the 1940s:(

  • User profile image
    blindlizard

    The thing is that everyone is watching the US military through a microsope.  I would bet that (an no I haven't researched this it is just a gut feeling) if you looked at any military conflict in the history of the world you would find this same stuff happening.  I am not saying it is not horrific, I am just saying that US service members are not the only ones to do it.  The big difference is that the US government investigates and punishes them for it

    Manip wrote:
    I kind of expect this from the US Army now...

  • User profile image
    Manip

    blindlizard wrote:
    The thing is that everyone is watching the US military through a microsope.  I would bet that (an no I haven't researched this it is just a gut feeling) if you looked at any military conflict in the history of the world you would find this same stuff happening.  I am not saying it is not horrific, I am just saying that US service members are not the only ones to do it.  The big difference is that the US government investigates and punishes them for it


    I guess that makes it ok then? ... Maybe the US army could increase rapes and murders and with it increase troop moral? ... Perhaps every Saturday each troop could go out and find a random Iraqi to kill, like a free pass to murder? ... Fun Fun Fun...

  • User profile image
    SCMcDonnell

    Your sentence explaining the article is an outright lie.  You should be ashamed.

    No where in that article does it say "charged" or convicted.  But, obviously you cannot stand your country and read into the article what you HOPE the turnout will be.  It's disgusting and even if it does turn out to be true you will not be able to avoid looking stupid, uneducated, and anti-American. 

    In this country, we are innocent until proven guilty.

    Go away.

    SM.

  • User profile image
    armbrat

    This is a forum of intelligent, worldly people.  Do you think the majority of people in the US care about:

    a) war crimes commited by their soldiers
    b) the best price on toilet paper at Wal-Mart

    For the record, how many in the western world give a sh|t? 

    What's happening in Iraq is deplorable, but more time is spent covering our celebrities' childbirths and Star Jones departure from The View.  Nobody cares.  We care about our soldiers, but not innocent civilians.

  • User profile image
    out180

    Shark_M wrote:
    

    There were some deaths due to what they did. These soldiers demonstrated acts of coward behavior. They should get life in prison or even death for betrayal of the Code of Honor and betrayal of US values.

    The stories are comming one by one, and from the looks of it, I did not know that US soldiers can be this cowardly, murdering innocent civilians and raping young defenseless girls in front of their mom and dad.

    More and more these gang that took over office, are making America look like Germany during the 1940s


    Manip wrote:
    I kind of expect this from the US Army now...

    They think that Iraqi civilians are no better than animals, and you can easily find video, images and stories of US soldiers killing, torturing and assaulting civilians.


    Guilt by association guys.  The lumping of US soldiers and US Army when discussing these acts is very reckless.  For every 1 bad one there's tens of thousands of very honorable men and women.  That's the cause of the image degradation, not the acts but the hasty generalization that takes place becuase of those acts.

  • User profile image
    Manip

    out180 wrote:
    
    Guilt by association guys.  The lumping of US soldiers and US Army when discussing these acts is very reckless.  For every 1 bad one there's tens of thousands of very honorable men and women.  That's the cause of the image degradation, not the acts but the hasty generalization that takes place becuase of those acts.


    Wrong.

    Most incidents that occur involve more than one individual... And having lots of reported incidents all involving groups of people indicates that there is something wrong at the very core of the US armies training, recruitment or management.

  • User profile image
    Shark_M

    SCMcDonnell wrote:
    Your sentence explaining the article is an outright lie.  You should be ashamed.

    No where in that article does it say "charged" or convicted.  But, obviously you cannot stand your country and read into the article what you HOPE the turnout will be.  It's disgusting and even if it does turn out to be true you will not be able to avoid looking stupid, uneducated, and anti-American. 

    In this country, we are innocent until proven guilty.

    Go away.

    SM.


    Well,no, in this day and age your guilty until said to be innocent by the home land security and the NSA.

    Just look at Guantanmo concentration camp.

    Besides, the evidence is STRONG. The army is does not accuse its soldiers of wrong doing unless there are damn good evidence of wrong doing + pressure from the world community to prosecute.

  • User profile image
    out180

    Manip wrote:
    
    blindlizard wrote: The thing is that everyone is watching the US military through a microsope.  I would bet that (an no I haven't researched this it is just a gut feeling) if you looked at any military conflict in the history of the world you would find this same stuff happening.  I am not saying it is not horrific, I am just saying that US service members are not the only ones to do it.  The big difference is that the US government investigates and punishes them for it


    I guess that makes it ok then? ... Maybe the US army could increase rapes and murders and with it increase troop moral? ... Perhaps every Saturday each troop could go out and find a random Iraqi to kill, like a free pass to murder? ... Fun Fun Fun...


    You could have made your point with resorting to this reply.

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