Coffeehouse Thread

18 posts

Firefox Developers Invade Redmond

Back to Forum: Coffeehouse
  • User profile image
    Oberon

    In August, Sam Ramji invited Mozilla developers to the Windows Vista ISV Readiness Lab. They accepted and one of the developers, Vladimir Vukicevic, has been posting on his blog about his experiences:

    Part 1
    Part 2

    I'm sure he'll be blogging some more tommorow night as well.

  • User profile image
    rjdohnert

    Charles and Rory should go down there and see if they can grab an interview.

  • User profile image
    KevinB

    rjdohnert wrote:
    Charles and Rory should go down there and see if they can grab an interview.


    Second that definitely!

  • User profile image
    Oberon
  • User profile image
    PaoloM

    Oberon wrote:

    Program Managers are the next evolution of the human form.

    One day, in the future, we will all have flying cars, dress in white, be (possibly) bald and we will all be Program Managers.

  • User profile image
    Jason Cox

    PaoloM wrote:
    
    Oberon wrote: Part 3

    Program Managers are the next evolution of the human form.

    One day, in the future, we will all have flying cars, dress in white, be (possibly) bald and we will all be Program Managers.
    Is this before or after we go back to the future?

  • User profile image
    PaoloM

    Jason Cox wrote:
    
    PaoloM wrote: 
    Oberon wrote: Part 3

    Program Managers are the next evolution of the human form.

    One day, in the future, we will all have flying cars, dress in white, be (possibly) bald and we will all be Program Managers.
    Is this before or after we go back to the future?



    Figure 1 - Flying Building


    Figure 2 - Program Managers

  • User profile image
    AndyC

    Part 2 is the most interesting, particularly the comments:

    vladimir's blog wrote:
    I don’t think I’ve ever tested under non-admin accounts on XP (I’m not sure if our QA folks were)


    This essentially reinforces something I've often speculated: that the FireFox developers seem blissfully unaware that you can even create Limited Users on XP and that there so-called secure software is just horribly, horribly broken in that scenario.

    I really hope this finally encourages them to rearchitect the broken bits of Firefox, because right now it's shaping up to be a far less security conscious option, which is a shame when it's rendering engine is undoubtedly more standards compliant than IE 7 will be.

  • User profile image
    footballism

    If Paolo is right, I will be a PM in the future too:P

    Sheva

  • User profile image
    sbc

    AndyC wrote:
    Part 2 is the most interesting, particularly the comments:

    vladimir's blog wrote:I don’t think I’ve ever tested under non-admin accounts on XP (I’m not sure if our QA folks were)


    This essentially reinforces something I've often speculated: that the FireFox developers seem blissfully unaware that you can even create Limited Users on XP and that there so-called secure software is just horribly, horribly broken in that scenario.

    I really hope this finally encourages them to rearchitect the broken bits of Firefox, because right now it's shaping up to be a far less security conscious option, which is a shame when it's rendering engine is undoubtedly more standards compliant than IE 7 will be.

    What problems have you had with a limited user? You can install extensions and search engines without needing to be admin. Installing plugins (e.g. flash, acrobat etc), needs admin rights, but most are installed via exe downloads. What makes it a 'very broken experience'?

    Of course you need to be an admin to update the browser with security fixes, but that is the case with all browsers.

  • User profile image
    AndyC

    sbc wrote:
    
    What problems have you had with a limited user? You can install extensions and search engines without needing to be admin. Installing plugins (e.g. flash, acrobat etc), needs admin rights, but most are installed via exe downloads. What makes it a 'very broken experience'?


    Install Firefox as admin. Run it as a limited user, you'll get asked whether it should be the default browser. Click Yes. Notice how it doesn't become your default browser. Enjoy this fun every time you run it!

    Try it on a day when one of the non-optional updates comes out and the stupid thing won't run because it keeps failing to install it.

    Try setting things up as an admin so that limited users can just use it (proxy settings etc) and not break things they shouldn't meddle with.

    sbc wrote:
    
    Of course you need to be an admin to update the browser with security fixes, but that is the case with all browsers.


    Um, I run IE as a non-admin user on a daily basis and have never had a problem with the updating feature, because it was designed to work properly in the first place.

  • User profile image
    sbc

    AndyC wrote:
    
    sbc wrote:
    What problems have you had with a limited user? You can install extensions and search engines without needing to be admin. Installing plugins (e.g. flash, acrobat etc), needs admin rights, but most are installed via exe downloads. What makes it a 'very broken experience'?


    Install Firefox as admin. Run it as a limited user, you'll get asked whether it should be the default browser. Click Yes. Notice how it doesn't become your default browser. Enjoy this fun every time you run it!

    Try it on a day when one of the non-optional updates comes out and the stupid thing won't run because it keeps failing to install it.

    Try setting things up as an admin so that limited users can just use it (proxy settings etc) and not break things they shouldn't meddle with.

    Can you even set a default browser per user? I always thought setting a default browser was for every user. I install Firefox as admin, then run it once with the same account.

    What happens when you start IE as a limited user (but something else is the default browser)?

    I've never had a problem with updates as a limited user (Firefox still runs, it just doesn't install the updates until logging in as admin).
    AndyC wrote:
    
    sbc wrote:
    Of course you need to be an admin to update the browser with security fixes, but that is the case with all browsers.


    Um, I run IE as a non-admin user on a daily basis and have never had a problem with the updating feature, because it was designed to work properly in the first place.

    I guess it installs updates when you log off then? Although I have only ever noticed the Windows update icon when logged in as admin.

    I wonder why I have never had the problems you have with Firefox - did you upgrade from older versions, or do a clean install (no profile folder or anything related to Firefox)?

  • User profile image
    Oberon
  • User profile image
    Tom Servo

    That guy has a point. There's no way to efficiently elevate the WPF funkiness in native code.

  • User profile image
    Sven Groot

    sbc wrote:
    
    AndyC wrote: 
    sbc wrote: 
    Of course you need to be an admin to update the browser with security fixes, but that is the case with all browsers.


    Um, I run IE as a non-admin user on a daily basis and have never had a problem with the updating feature, because it was designed to work properly in the first place.

    I guess it installs updates when you log off then? Although I have only ever noticed the Windows update icon when logged in as admin.

    The "install on shut down" option is available to all users, and scheduled installations occur even when nobody is logged on. And there's a group policy "Allow non-adminstrators to receive update notifications" which causes non-admins to get the AU icon and then they can install the updates that way (not a good idea to set that policy in a corporate environment though, since they'll also be able to decline updates if it is set).

  • User profile image
    AndyC

    sbc wrote:
    Can you even set a default browser per user? I always thought setting a default browser was for every user. I install Firefox as admin, then run it once with the same account.

    What happens when you start IE as a limited user (but something else is the default browser)?


    IE asks you whether or not you want it to be default. It then sets either the per-machine default (if you are an Administrator) or the per-user setting as appropriate. It Firefox is the per-machine default but not the current users default it won't ask you to change it even if you select the "Always check to see if firefox is the default browser" setting.

    sbc wrote:

    I've never had a problem with updates as a limited user (Firefox still runs, it just doesn't install the updates until logging in as admin).


    It's going back a few versions and was one of those "so critical we won't give you a chance not to install" updates (which, by the by, is completely broken behaviour anyway.) It may be fixed these days, but I've no easy way to find out.

  • User profile image
    petknep_home

    That Firefox default browser problem is due to the new way that SPAD works. No longer are you supposed to screw&chop inside HKCR\http, you are supposed to make your own keyset like IE.HTTP and then use something like IApplicationAssociationRegistration to set it up.

    I didn't see him mention that in his blog, hopefully the ISV readiness team talked to him about it. But it was all PMs so they probably just compared tablet pcs all day Cool, just kidding Paolo.

    http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dnlong/html/AppComp.asp is an ok resource for vista compat stuff.

  • User profile image
    PaoloM

    petknep_home wrote:
    But it was all PMs so they probably just compared tablet pcs all day , just kidding Paolo.

    Hey, what's wrong with that?!

    I got two Tongue Out

Comments closed

Comments have been closed since this content was published more than 30 days ago, but if you'd like to continue the conversation, please create a new thread in our Forums, or Contact Us and let us know.