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19 posts

If the Zune software plays MP4 video, why doesn't WMP11?

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  • User profile image
    blowdart

    Insanity! Insanity!

  • User profile image
    odujosh

    Yea. I think some VP should sit down with Media Playback related teams at microsoft and say: "OK guys you will not release another version until you meet this standard" If you can't meet this standard then your product will not ship."

    Lets say that standard includes play for sure. I mean if your going to name your standard play for sure. It should still work 1 years later. Last time I checked music formatting has not had that dramitic of a shift.

    There is really no excuse for the fat client (WMP11) not supporting what the thin client version can. (Zune)

    There is also no reason the Zune could not support play for sure. Technology should be about choices not controlling consumers to the technology whim of the moment.

  • User profile image
    Adrian​JMartin

    I agree!

    How hard can it be to create a folder with a gazillion different media types and make sure that WMP11 can play them correctly.

    Did anyone test WMP11?

  • User profile image
    Cannot​Resolve​Symbol

    I even tried registering the MP4 codec that comes with the Zune software by hand, but it's apparently not a DirectShow codec.  Props to Microsoft for pulling what Apple does with Quicktime.  Sad

  • User profile image
    Tom Servo

    I've been complaining about MPEG-4 support since the WMP9 beta. Nothing happened.

    Well, MPEG-4 support in itself isn't the problem, there are plenty of DShow codecs to handle all aspects of MPEG-4, be it AAC audio, ASP/AVC video or the file container. What's however annoying is that WMP acts ignorant to working splitters. It's goddamn annoying that each time I want to open a MP4 file, successfully at that, it needs to ask me whether I'm sure or not, nor being able to add these files to the library though WMP gets tag information from the plugins.

    In the Windows Early Feedback program, I filed a concrete suggestion on how to fix that stuff, but my bets are that this won't be implemented.

  • User profile image
    blowdart

    Tom Servo wrote:
    I've been complaining about MPEG-4 support since the WMP9 beta. Nothing happened.

    Well, MPEG-4 support in itself isn't the problem, there are plenty of DShow codecs to handle all aspects of MPEG-4, be it AAC audio, ASP/AVC video or the file container. What's however annoying is that WMP acts ignorant to working splitters. It's goddamn annoying that each time I want to open a MP4 file, successfully at that, it needs to ask me whether I'm sure or not, nor being able to add these files to the library though WMP gets tag information from the plugins.
    .


    For some reason FFDSHOW simply doesn't work for me with MPEG-4 in WMP. Annoying

  • User profile image
    Gambit

    odujosh wrote:
    Yea. I think some VP should sit down with Media Playback related teams at microsoft and say: "OK guys you will not release another version until you meet this standard" If you can't meet this standard then your product will not ship."

    Lets say that standard includes play for sure. I mean if your going to name your standard play for sure. It should still work 1 years later. Last time I checked music formatting has not had that dramitic of a shift.

    There is really no excuse for the fat client (WMP11) not supporting what the thin client version can. (Zune)

    There is also no reason the Zune could not support play for sure. Technology should be about choices not controlling consumers to the technology whim of the moment.


    A better idea would be if a VP sat the Zune and Media Player teams down and said "Look, we only need 1 media player. Either get together and make that one universale media player or we'll find people who can".

  • User profile image
    Yggdrasil

    Gambit wrote:
    
    A better idea would be if a VP sat the Zune and Media Player teams down and said "Look, we only need 1 media player. Either get together and make that one universale media player or we'll find people who can".


    Do you really think that it's developer incompetence that caused this? Have you never found yourself implementing a feature you thought was stupid because this was the defined requirements?

    My last project, we had a set of Actions that a user could string up into workflows that could be run on any other box in the system. One of the actions was "Delete File" which received an arbitrary file path and tried to delete it. Did I object? Of course. Did I point out the mindblowing security implications? I sure did. Did I implement it? I'm afraid so.

    If you want to blame someone, blame the VP who made the decision.

  • User profile image
    Harlequin

    MP4 is DivX, right?

  • User profile image
    Tom Servo

    DivX/XviD is MPEG-4 Advanced Simple Profile.

  • User profile image
    TommyCarlier

    The mobile edition of WMP plays MP4 video. Go figure.

  • User profile image
    Gambit

    Yggdrasil wrote:
    

    Do you really think that it's developer incompetence that caused this? Have you never found yourself implementing a feature you thought was stupid because this was the defined requirements?

    My last project, we had a set of Actions that a user could string up into workflows that could be run on any other box in the system. One of the actions was "Delete File" which received an arbitrary file path and tried to delete it. Did I object? Of course. Did I point out the mindblowing security implications? I sure did. Did I implement it? I'm afraid so.

    If you want to blame someone, blame the VP who made the decision.


    I blame whoever made the decision to split WMP and Zune into two applications. I don't know if it was the programmers, PM, of VP. Someone made that decision and they're who I'd like to blame/talk to. Zune(the software)looks, to me anyway, like it's a mod of WMP 10. So why not tell the WMP team to put the Zune functionality into WMP 11?


  • User profile image
    ddewbofh

    The question that hits me is: "Why don't they use DirectShow for Zune's software?".

    It'd make life a whole lot easier for everyone involved methinks, unless you want to restrict access to the magical Zune codec in the future or something.

  • User profile image
    An_Angel

    Gambit wrote:
    
    A better idea would be if a VP sat the Zune and Media Player teams down and said "Look, we only need 1 media player. Either get together and make that one universale media player or we'll find people who can".


    A nice idea but remember one is on a Windows CE OS and the other is on 2K, XP or Vista... The OS's are very different. Just a thought, although the codec's should be available for WMP11 and there does need to be a level of consistency there!

  • User profile image
    Cannot​Resolve​Symbol

    An_Angel wrote:
    
    Gambit wrote: 
    A better idea would be if a VP sat the Zune and Media Player teams down and said "Look, we only need 1 media player. Either get together and make that one universale media player or we'll find people who can".


    A nice idea but remember one is on a Windows CE OS and the other is on 2K, XP or Vista... The OS's are very different. Just a thought, although the codec's should be available for WMP11 and there does need to be a level of consistency there!


    The issue is not the Zune's firmware, it's the Zune software on 2K, XP, or Vista that's just silly.  You can tell that a lot of code is ripped straight from WMP, yet its MP4 codec isn't a DirectShow codec.

  • User profile image
    Sven Groot

    You can just imagine the conversation.

    Marketing: The iPod has its own dedicated player app. Therefore, we must have one too!
    Developer: Don't we already have Windows Media Player?
    Marketing: And it must be compatible with the Zune, and only the Zune. That'll be sure to promote sales.
    Developer: But what about PlaysForSure?
    Marketing: We'll call it zTunes!
    Developer: ...

  • User profile image
    n4cer

    The issue is likely licensing fees (as it was with MPEG-2). The Zune team recoups the cost of licensing from hardware sales. Including it in WMP would mean MS has to pay a fee for each copy of Windows in which the codecs ship. The price premium for Ultimate (and I believe Home Premium) includes licensing costs for codecs like MPEG-2 and Dolby Digital, which is why those are included in those SKUs. Maybe they will add H.264 at some point though (they do ship an MPEG4 codec currently, but I'm not sure what profiles are supported). The Zune (software at least -- not sure about hardware) just got H.264 support with the latest update.

  • User profile image
    Gambit

    n4cer wrote:
    The issue is likely licensing fees (as it was with MPEG-2). The Zune team recoups the cost of licensing from hardware sales. Including it in WMP would mean MS has to pay a fee for each copy of Windows in which the codecs ship. The price premium for Ultimate (and I believe Home Premium) includes licensing costs for codecs like MPEG-2 and Dolby Digital, which is why those are included in those SKUs. Maybe they will add H.264 at some point though (they do ship an MPEG4 codec currently, but I'm not sure what profiles are supported). The Zune (software at least -- not sure about hardware) just got H.264 support with the latest update.


    Ahhh nice. Thanks for that n4cer. This is probably the case.

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