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WMP Group - PLEASE FIX WMP You broke it!

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  • User profile image
    John Galt

    1. When you close WMP 11 (Vista, XP, doesn't matter) it doesn't remember the last thing playing or the playlist that was being played when you start it up again.  This is incredibly anoying and makes WMP 11 WORSE than 10.  (aside from the fact that there is little improvement between 11 and 10 otherwise other than x64 support...)
    2. Combined with #1 I have to go through serious hoops just to go and play my music collection in random. It's fine that I have to set it to random, but unlike WMP 10 where I could just right click on my library and choose play or infact just click on the library and hit play, you can't do this with WMP 11. You have to navigate to "songs" and right click on it. Bring back the way most people use WMP, and that's as a jutebox.  I should be able to click on the little down arrow on the library and choose play. At the worst I should be able to right click on it and choose play and it sould start playing.

    This is just more examples of MS not bothering to use their own crap before they release it (i.e. ALL OF VISTA)

    *sigh*. You know a company is in trouble when the new version of their stuff is worse than the previous version...

  • User profile image
    littleguru

    WMP is really a program that is somehow lost... Really useful features aren't implemented! I don't know why Microsoft is going this way with this decent program...

  • User profile image
    Cornelius Ellsonpeter

    I also never understood why they never implemented something that remembers where you left off on a video (like if you hit the pause button). For instance, if I watch a Channel 9 video, stop it halfway through because I have something else to do, close out of WMP, and come back later...why can't I re-open that video with a marker showing where I left off? Geez, it's not that hard to do.

  • User profile image
    jolson88

    Cornelius Ellsonpeter wrote:
    I also never understood why they never implemented something that remembers where you left off on a video (like if you hit the pause button). For instance, if I watch a Channel 9 video, stop it halfway through because I have something else to do, close out of WMP, and come back later...why can't I re-open that video with a marker showing where I left off? Geez, it's not that hard to do.


    Yeah, we _totally_ need to add this to WMP. I'm still excited how the 360 does this. I can be watching a DVD, take the DVD out and turn off the 360. Then when I turn the 360 back on and put the DVD back in, it resumes where I left off. That's just cool.

    My other annoyance with WMP is that I feel there are too _many_ features (many of them being non-important ones). I think we need to get back to roots and figure out exactly what we are going for with WMP.

  • User profile image
    jolson88

    John Galt wrote:
     This is just more examples of MS not bothering to use their own crap before they release it (i.e. ALL OF VISTA)


    Sorry John, I call BULL *$&%! As an employee, saying that none of us used any part of Vista and didn't dogfood our OS is just utter horse turd.

    Quite the number of us were using it since the first beta. And I've lost count of how many bugs were filed just by employees that I knew. This is perhaps one of the worst cases of exaggeration I've seen in a while.

    Yes, WMP 11 needs work and has some serious problems, I'll give you that much. But comparing that to the entire OS is just plain wrong. Put your frustrations to the side for a moment, and look at it constructively for a change.

    [UPDATE: I find it funny that -h-o-n-k-e-y- is censored when used with "bull" bug "horse turd" is allowed. Weird]

  • User profile image
    TommyCarlier

    Like Jason said, WMP11 needs more work, but isn't utterly useless. If you compare the first beta with the release version, you can see a great progress. I know I have made some serious comments about WMP11, uttering that it was crap when it was still in beta. But I feel it has improved a lot. My biggest gripe was that you couldn't use WMP11 without a mouse, that keyboard navigation was impossible. But they have solved that pretty good. You can tab around and reach all the elements.

  • User profile image
    littleguru

    JasonOlson wrote:
    My other annoyance with WMP is that I feel there are too _many_ features (many of them being non-important ones). I think we need to get back to roots and figure out exactly what we are going for with WMP.


    I completely agree with you on the to many unimportant features thing. WMP should be re-thought from the ground.

    I mean who cares for example about skins if all the OS is skinnable... But there are a lot other things that aren't important but part of the program.

    WMP is having the big opportunity to be the number 1 media player, but it is going to loose it more and more. So many are using other players, because of the problems with WMP!

  • User profile image
    Ion Todirel

    littleguru wrote:
    Really useful features aren't implemented!
    like what?

    JasonOlson wrote:
    I think we need to get back to roots and figure out exactly what we are going for with WMP.
    hire me, hire me Tongue Out i know what to do, i have some crazy ideas

  • User profile image
    littleguru

    Ion Todirel wrote:
    
    littleguru wrote: Really useful features aren't implemented!
    like what?

    JasonOlson wrote: I think we need to get back to roots and figure out exactly what we are going for with WMP.
    hire me, hire me i know what to do, i have some crazy ideas


    Start playing a song from the libary and move to the next after having finished the song? Currently if you play a song in the library that song is replayed over and over again... WMP creates a playlist for one song...

    Sort the playlist by folder and file name.

    Add new codecs

    One thing: put the focus on media playback!

    ...

  • User profile image
    Minh

    John Galt wrote:
    
    1. When you close WMP 11 (Vista, XP, doesn't matter) it doesn't remember the last thing playing
    I.... um.... rather like it that WMP doesn't show the last.... um.... video I watch. Keep up the good work, WMP team. But, oh, your music store sucks. I've tried thrice to spend money on your music store and couldn't. Thank god for iTunes.

  • User profile image
    sc00ter

    My experiences with WMP 10 or 11..

        When the window is closed on the second monitor, and then brought back by clicking on a video some where to make it play, WMP opens up on the second monitor (which I like), the audio starts playing, but the video doesn't play.  press stop, press start, video still doesn't play, but the audio does (for the video).   Ok, so i move the WMP window over to the first monitor.  Close it, click on the video to reopen WMP and the video & audio play nicely.  Just a note, once the WMP is on the first monitor, it plays just fine, it doesn't have to be closed off after moving it from second monitor to first btw.  Maybe if anyone else here gets this, can confirm that happens to them?   I run Vista RC2, Radeon 7500 AGP 64M DDR card. Its got 3 possible outputs, but only two usable at one time. Sad I haven't tried using another card for the second monitor yet cause the only card I have besides the radeon is an ati rage 3d card with 8megs. Sad Really old beast.

    Another thing that bugs the heck out of me is the damned "store" icons and menu items.  Don't even load up any DLL/addin crap for the stores.  I don't need em. There should be an option to shut off any store crap.  I don't buy music online, nor will I ever.  I prefer going down to the music store myself.  A place "I" like.

    Lets see.. Other than that, the WMP is the greatest thing since sliced bread.  Hehe.


  • User profile image
    KosherCoder

    I couldn't agree more with the original poster. I'm a MS junkie, preferring to use MS tools over all else just because, but WMP has had me playing with Real and WinAmp over the last year because it is almost completely unusable. Sad.

    I don't have the multi-monitor problem that Scooter has. My guess is that it is related to the video overlay settings with his video drivers. However, I too am annoyed by those dang store icons.

    WMP is a sad disappointment, and it pains me to admit it.

  • User profile image
    sc00ter

    KosherCoder wrote:
    
    I don't have the multi-monitor problem that Scooter has. My guess is that it is related to the video overlay settings with his video drivers. However, I too am annoyed by those dang store icons.

    I'm using the stock default video drivers Vista installs/detects.  ATI seemingly doesn't support anything below 9200 for vista. (or some where around there.) So its all Microsoft. 

    What I forgot to mention.. Once the video is playing on the first monitor,  I can then move it over to the second monitor.. but before I close off the window, I need to remember that videos don't start playing on the second monitor, so moving it back to the first monitor before closing it. 

  • User profile image
    John Galt

    JasonOlson wrote:
    
    John Galt wrote:  This is just more examples of MS not bothering to use their own crap before they release it (i.e. ALL OF VISTA)


    Sorry John, I call BULL *$&%! As an employee, saying that none of us used any part of Vista and didn't dogfood our OS is just utter horse turd.

    Quite the number of us were using it since the first beta. And I've lost count of how many bugs were filed just by employees that I knew. This is perhaps one of the worst cases of exaggeration I've seen in a while.

    Yes, WMP 11 needs work and has some serious problems, I'll give you that much. But comparing that to the entire OS is just plain wrong. Put your frustrations to the side for a moment, and look at it constructively for a change.

    [UPDATE: I find it funny that -h-o-n-k-e-y- is censored when used with "bull" bug "horse turd" is allowed. Weird]


    FACT: WMP 11 has features missng that were in WMP10 and are critical functionality for a media player to have (see above)

    FACT: Vista has 8+ ways to shut it off. There's been much blogging about it, but it's a disaster and sure to confuse even the most hardened users. I still don't know what the actual shut down really does and I'm used to computers!

    FACT: Vista changes the style of the control panel to more like web pages. But when you go to change your screen resolution you get the old crap from Windows XP which is highly confusing. This happens EVERYWHERE in control panel.

    FACT: The new layout of my profile and documents and how it has a million different symbolic links is confusing, a mess and imbarrassing. Whoever thought this was an improvement should be shot. They obviously didn't USE IT.

    And on and on and on.  Maybe you used it and reported bugs. But no one came a long and said "STOP THE MADNESS! Stop letting committies design UI!"

    No matter how you slice it, Vista is more confusing, not less, WMP is less functional and more anoying not less. If you're actually using your own dog food, then you're either martians are smoking a lot of dope to think that what you produced is good. It's crap, it's a disaster on the scale of Windows ME and everyone has been telling you that for > 2 years of development and you didn't bother to listen.

    Everything MS does is more and more complex and harder and harder to use. Meanwhile Apple's stuff just keeps getting easier and easier to use with more and more functionality. I've been a PC guy most of my life (and Commodore 64 before that!) and when forced to use macs in the past, I've hated them with a passion. Now I got to a friend's mac and think "wow this is so easy, I don't have to think about it!" and wonder what it's going to take to port my applications to the Mac...

    You've got a big problem, and it's just getting worse. Go get yourself a Steve Jobs that makes all of the UI decisions and let him act as a dictator. This is what you need. Until you get there, Windows will just get more and more disasterous with every version.

    Kudos where Kudos is due though: Office 2007 is a vast improvement.

  • User profile image
    saporis

    John Galt wrote:
    
    JasonOlson wrote: 
    John Galt wrote:  This is just more examples of MS not bothering to use their own crap before they release it (i.e. ALL OF VISTA)


    Sorry John, I call BULL *$&%! As an employee, saying that none of us used any part of Vista and didn't dogfood our OS is just utter horse turd.

    Quite the number of us were using it since the first beta. And I've lost count of how many bugs were filed just by employees that I knew. This is perhaps one of the worst cases of exaggeration I've seen in a while.

    Yes, WMP 11 needs work and has some serious problems, I'll give you that much. But comparing that to the entire OS is just plain wrong. Put your frustrations to the side for a moment, and look at it constructively for a change.

    [UPDATE: I find it funny that -h-o-n-k-e-y- is censored when used with "bull" bug "horse turd" is allowed. Weird]


    FACT: WMP 11 has features missng that were in WMP10 and are critical functionality for a media player to have (see above)

    FACT: Vista has 8+ ways to shut it off. There's been much blogging about it, but it's a disaster and sure to confuse even the most hardened users. I still don't know what the actual shut down really does and I'm used to computers!

    FACT: Vista changes the style of the control panel to more like web pages. But when you go to change your screen resolution you get the old crap from Windows XP which is highly confusing. This happens EVERYWHERE in control panel.

    FACT: The new layout of my profile and documents and how it has a million different symbolic links is confusing, a mess and imbarrassing. Whoever thought this was an improvement should be shot. They obviously didn't USE IT.

    And on and on and on.  Maybe you used it and reported bugs. But no one came a long and said "STOP THE MADNESS! Stop letting committies design UI!"

    No matter how you slice it, Vista is more confusing, not less, WMP is less functional and more anoying not less. If you're actually using your own dog food, then you're either martians are smoking a lot of dope to think that what you produced is good. It's crap, it's a disaster on the scale of Windows ME and everyone has been telling you that for > 2 years of development and you didn't bother to listen.

    Everything MS does is more and more complex and harder and harder to use. Meanwhile Apple's stuff just keeps getting easier and easier to use with more and more functionality. I've been a PC guy most of my life (and Commodore 64 before that!) and when forced to use macs in the past, I've hated them with a passion. Now I got to a friend's mac and think "wow this is so easy, I don't have to think about it!" and wonder what it's going to take to port my applications to the Mac...

    You've got a big problem, and it's just getting worse. Go get yourself a Steve Jobs that makes all of the UI decisions and let him act as a dictator. This is what you need. Until you get there, Windows will just get more and more disasterous with every version.

    Kudos where Kudos is due though: Office 2007 is a vast improvement.



    I'm somewhat confused at where you exact sources are and statements. 

    I can understand when a newspaper releases an article, exaggerations are rather common.  However, when you try to make a point on “fact”, you should not (and cannot) say, “a million things” unless of course, there ARE a million things.

     

    If you do not like the way Microsoft’s UI is working, move over to Mac’s OSX.  Or, if you are a developer, make your own UI.

  • User profile image
    kettch

    thumbtacks wrote:
    Apple, as usual, "gets" how to make a UI for a consumer


    I'm still not convinced of this. Sure iTunes might look pretty (in it's own way), but everybody I know who uses it has used the phrase "banging my head against the wall, screaming 'Why?'" concerning their experience.

    *dons flame retardant suit*

    I also have yet to drink the clickwheel interface kool-aid. For most things, I find that the archaic controls on my Creative Zen Extra are better for one handed operation, and definitely better for non-visual tactile operation while in my pockets.

  • User profile image
    jolson88

    John Galt wrote:
    

    FACT: WMP 11 has features missng that were in WMP10 and are critical functionality for a media player to have (see above)

    FACT: Vista changes the style of the control panel to more like web pages. But when you go to change your screen resolution you get the old crap from Windows XP which is highly confusing. This happens EVERYWHERE in control panel.



    I'll give you these.

    John Galt wrote:


    FACT: Vista has 8+ ways to shut it off. There's been much blogging about it, but it's a disaster and sure to confuse even the most hardened users. I still don't know what the actual shut down really does and I'm used to computers!

    FACT: The new layout of my profile and documents and how it has a million different symbolic links is confusing, a mess and imbarrassing. Whoever thought this was an improvement should be shot. They obviously didn't USE IT.



    No, these are NOT facts. Don't even try to say they are with no back-up proof. This is one of the problems with blogging in general. It is a huge echo-chamber and is so self-referential. It's like a big feedback loop (feedback as in the electronic meaning).

    What people have to realize is that bloggers are a_vocal minority_. Bloggers' opinions are not the be-all-to-end-all of opinions when it comes to feedback for the OS. Bloggers are geeks and engineers for the most part still. And the reason the OS has gotten as unusable as it has in previous versions (unusable to the actual average end-user) is because these same type of people were the ones creating the UI.

    John Galt wrote:


    And on and on and on.  Maybe you used it and reported bugs. But no one came a long and said "STOP THE MADNESS! Stop letting committies design UI!"

    No matter how you slice it, Vista is more confusing, not less, ...



    Other than the givens from above, you have to realize that you are not (and most of us are not) the typical end user. I think the mark of how usable our OS is how well my computer illiterate relatives can use the OS, not entirely how well geeks and engineers can use the OS (although it certainly is a part of it). And the two non-computer-oriented relatives I have that have been using Vista are able to get around it better than they were with XP.

    Are there spots that still need work? Absolutely! But that's not to say it's an improvement over XP (compared to "utter crap" like you seem to think it is).

    John Galt wrote:


    If you're actually using your own dog food, then you're either martians are smoking a lot of dope to think that what you produced is good. It's crap, it's a disaster on the scale of Windows ME and everyone has been telling you that for > 2 years of development and you didn't bother to listen.



    I'm sorry, but I think this shows your ignorance towards who our actual average end-users are. If it were up to engineers, we would still be living in the Command-Line World. I for one, am glad these people aren't controlling the look of the UI. And comparing Vista to Windows ME DEFINITELY shows your ignorance and lack of perspective.

    The comment about >2 years of development is a joke as a large portion of the Vista code base is not any more than 2.5 years old. Contrary to popular belief, Vista was NOT in development for 5+ years. Halfway through, the company decided things were going in the wrong direction and did a "reset" of the OS, essentially starting from scratch again.

    HOWEVER, with all this said, I must be a little honest and self-critical. There are definitely places in Vista that I wish we would have focused less on the glamour and eye-candy and more on the usability.

    One of the problems (and main hurldes) for us is backwards compatibility. OSX made (what I think is the correct) decision to break backwards compatibility. But you can bet that if we made an outright break on backwards compability, there would be a HELL STORM of anger from all our users. While it is a hurdle, it is also one of our strengths. The problem with this is that there are many things you can't do because it would break existing applications that already exist for the platform.

    John Galt wrote:

     
    Everything MS does is more and more complex and harder and harder to use. Meanwhile Apple's stuff just keeps getting easier and easier to use with more and more functionality. I've been a PC guy most of my life (and Commodore 64 before that!) and when forced to use macs in the past, I've hated them with a passion. Now I got to a friend's mac and think "wow this is so easy, I don't have to think about it!" and wonder what it's going to take to port my applications to the Mac...

    Kudos where Kudos is due though: Office 2007 is a vast improvement.



    You definitely hit the nail on the head here. It's one of the reasons that I'm a total iPod lover and haven't even considered buying a Zune. It's also a reason why, if I had the money, I would run out and buy a PowerBook. Not only is Apple good at design, that are good at winning the hearts and minds. It's heart to find a technology company that has more dedicated and serious fans and evangelists than Apple has. And there's a very good reason for that. Apple has "The Cool Factor," which is something Microsoft is missing. Of course, it's also one of the reasons that I'm a HUGE J Allard fan as he has made great progress through the Media Division and XBox in bringing the cool aspect to the company.

    And Office 2007 is a vast improvement. What I can say is that Microsoft is definitely making more and more investments into UX (User Experience) and Office 2007 is the first real public showing of this investment. I sincerely hope that Microsoft starts investing these resources into the base OS itself on top of its applications.

  • User profile image
    John Galt

    saporis wrote:
    

    I'm somewhat confused at where you exact sources are and statements. 

    I can understand when a newspaper releases an article, exaggerations are rather common.  However, when you try to make a point on “fact”, you should not (and cannot) say, “a million things” unless of course, there ARE a million things.chemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o></o>

    <o> </o>

    If you do not like the way Microsoft’s UI is working, move over to Mac’s OSX.  Or, if you are a developer, make your own UI.<o></o>



    I assume you say "somewhat" because you've read all of the reviews of Vista, all of the complaints on here (including mine where I outlined > 20 things wrong with it while it was still in beta that came through to the final that are just amaturish GUI mistakes), the beta testers telling you that they would rather see Vista finished than released when it was, Paul Thurrott, your biggest fanboy kicking the crap out of Vista all the way along and still not impressed. Joel on Software kicking the crap out of Vista (including just today telling everyone not to bother moving to Vista unless it happens to come on a new PC and there is no reason to buy a new PC just for it). Joel being one of the most sensible UI people out there and highly respected in MS itself. Game review sites telling it's gammers to stay away from Vista and more and more and more.

    I say a million because there is a million things wrong with it (not the least of which is the several hundred thousand bugs that are still in your bug database that weren't resolved before release!)

    I have yet to see one positive review of Vista on any web site. Not one.

    Need I say more? I mean I'd love to waste time and post about 5,000 links, but I have a day job.

    My point is still the same, someone didn't bother to use their brain in the WMP group and screwed up two of the most basic functions of WMP.  Since no other form of complaint including bug reports etc. worked, I figured as a customer of MS that maybe you'd listen here. But instead of listening, as usual you blame the person telling you that you have problems instead of actually working with them to fix it.  IBM does this and they suck in the customer space as a result. You guys never used to do this, now you do.  You're becoming irrelivent just as quickly as IBM did for the same reasons.

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