Coffeehouse Thread

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WMP Group - PLEASE FIX WMP You broke it!

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  • JasonOlson

    Hmmm, very interesting points John. I think I need to step back, think, and assimilate them before responding. You know, take some time to let them sink in rather than coming up with some kind of religious reply.

    My gut reaction is that the points are perfectly valid _if_ we lived in a perfect world, but we don't. Then again, that reply ALWAYS seems like such a cop-out. Perhaps I need to investigate why I feel that way and challenge whether that assumption/reaction is wrong or not.

    Thanks for the debate Smiley. (Sorry for hijacking the thread everyone)

  • Ion Todirel

    JasonOlson wrote:
    OH, and I was going to add something. Perhaps we should compile a list of all these bugs that exist in all the different applications (or Vista itself) so that we (as Niners) can start submitting them to the proper channels at Microsoft for fixing?
    on C9 Wiki what do you think?

  • bart7simpso​n7

    I think John should be in a Channel9 movie with some Microsoft employees Big Smile

  • jamie

    hey john - i got the book iWoz for christmas and couldnt help thinking of this (long) thread while reading the following 2 pages
    *Google does this so it should be ok to post just2 pages of a 309 pg book.

    In related news: it took Vista 123 seconds to read these lone 3 photos off my Canon rebel  (in xp it would have taken 3 seconds)




    this page is a bit blurry - sorry...




    gotta love saleguys  Tongue Out

  • Ion Todirel

    John Galt wrote:
    I was just reading an article about Flash Video being horrible to look at, but at least it works and that's why You Tube and others all use it. It just works... this is my point, it doesn't matter that it's flash, or Quicktime or WMV, it only matters that it works, it's free and users can get at the content that they want quickly.
    here it is for who is interested.

  • TommyCarlier

    Sir Homer, it's like you said: eyecandy. And Vista is also capable of this. But, with great power comes great responsibility. And Microsoft made the wise decision to cut back on the eyecandy, and produce a UI that is not hindered by too much unnecessary animation.

  • TommyCarlier

    Haven't you seen the earlier Longhorn demos, with the wobbly windows, and the rotating notepad? Haven't you seen the various Avalon/WPF demos? Just because you haven't seen them, doesn't mean they don't exist.

  • John Galt

    JasonOlson wrote:
    Hmmm, very interesting points John. I think I need to step back, think, and assimilate them before responding. You know, take some time to let them sink in rather than coming up with some kind of religious reply.

    My gut reaction is that the points are perfectly valid _if_ we lived in a perfect world, but we don't. Then again, that reply ALWAYS seems like such a cop-out. Perhaps I need to investigate why I feel that way and challenge whether that assumption/reaction is wrong or not.

    Thanks for the debate . (Sorry for hijacking the thread everyone)


    Apple iPhone.  You don't have to live in a perfect world to create really great stuff that makes the end user say "wow, I don't have to put effort into this" and make everyone smile.

    You just have to be willing to be wrong.  Steve Jobs has learned how to be wrong, because he long ago got over the fear of being wrong. MS is so busy being afraid to be wrong (with the exception of the Office 2007 group!) that they have never learned how to be right. And Vista is just the culmination of this cowardice.

    (incidently this is the same reason why "intellectuals" in government and the education system love subjectivism. If there is no truth, no right or wrong, then they're never wrong and never have to live up to being wrong.  But then the education system and government prove my point about Microsoft for exactly this reason...)

    At any rate, my point is made once again by Steve Jobs.  embrace greatness by stepping up.  One person driving the ship to one purpose. That's how MS is going to be fixed from this disasterous course it's on. There is no other way.

  • John Galt

    Jamie... you'r point is exactly what I'm talking about!

    Joel on Software did an excellent thing about startups that fail and those that succeed. The ones that suceed are the ones that allow the programmers to be programmers and hide the rest of the business from them as much as possible (except for listening to customers)

    The same holds true for the other side. The more the marketing people get to make the programming decisions the more the product sucks.  Same thing for hardware as Woz points out.

    One hand in the cookie jar at a time and one traffic cop to tell who gets to stick their hand in next....

  • John Galt

    TommyCarlier wrote:
    Haven't you seen the earlier Longhorn demos, with the wobbly windows, and the rotating notepad? Haven't you seen the various Avalon/WPF demos? Just because you haven't seen them, doesn't mean they don't exist.


    This isn't eye candy. It's eye crap.

    Look at a mac. It's gorgeous. But everything has a purpose.  Nothing is out of place. It wiggles the login screen when you get it wrong. Why? Not because it's pretty, but because it's the best way to tell someone that the screwed up without being anoying about it.

    Windows is a bunch of sticks thrown on a pile and called a house.  Everything Steve Jobs builds is a masion made out of the very best materials.  The roomba may take a long time to clean the house, but man, it does it well, and doesn't require effort. (Of those that didn't get the metaphore, I'm referring to how slow OSX can be at times compared to XP...)

    Same thing with the iPhone.

  • Larry​Osterman

    JasonOlson wrote:
    Awesome . I see I prodded a very passionate person. That's great!

    Okay, now some rebuttals (or agreements)

    John Galt wrote: 

    (As I type, IE 7 in Vista just bugged me about using the freaking clipboard to pasted text!!! Yet another stupidity!  Learn the difference between a real keyboard event and a programatic keyboard event MS!!! The two are different, one denotes permission, the other does not. Only ask in the second case, not the first!!! Stupid security = useless security! (more proof))



    Yes, this annoys me as well. I've wondered but never did the research. Have we (Microsoft) actually flat out said that this was a security feature. For some reason, I thought for a while that it was a software patent issue and that some other company held a patent on automatic access to the clipboard or something ridiculous like that. Pardon my ignorance .



    Yeah, it's a security feature.  Basically when you paste into an edit control like this one, script is doing the pasting.  As I understand it (I may be wrong but I'm pretty sure), before IE7, IE would happily allow script to access the clipboard and send it's contents to the server hosting the page without warning.  With IE7 (and Opera, and Firefox), script can't access the clipboard without the user being told about it.

    You can see this by switching to the HTML page and trying to paste from the clipboard - that one doesn't have script handling the CTRL-V event and you can paste just fine.

  • Matthew van Eerde

    LarryOsterman wrote:
    before IE7, IE would happily allow script to access the clipboard


    Yup: IE 4 to IE 6.

    Copy Paste

  • Matthew van Eerde

    JasonOlson wrote:
    I thought for a while that it was a software patent issue and that some other company held a patent on automatic access to the clipboard


    You may be thinking of the Eolas patent on page-resident plugins that do things prior to the user "activating" them.

  • cescotto

    Sorry if I interrupt your IE conversation but I have 2 WMP11 bugs to report:

    1) When pressing the ALT key on WMP (with the menu bar not shown) the menu appears however if you press it
    again when the menu opens it doesn't disappear like it happens with usual
    Windows menus (when using Explorer for example if you press ALT the menu appears if you press it again it disappears).

    2) press the ALT key to have the menu appear (still with the menu bar hidden), then PRESS "Windows
    Key + D" the desktop is shown but the menu remains open on the desktop.

    I also have a feature suggestion:  when I have an album/artist open in the library if I search some text the text is searched only in the current list of songs but if that text is not present then the search becames global. Yes, you can click on the drop-down menu of the search combo but that looks counter-intuitive: couldn't you make that drop-down button for example blink, if the search finds something outsite of the current album/artist so that people can figure out what that button is needed for?

    Also the drop-down menus to switch from music to video, etc don't appear to be much intuitive: aren't there other solutions?

  • Matthew van Eerde

    1) Press Alt twice

    I can repro this; it looks like expected behavior to me, though... this is not a menu bar so much as it is a single drop-down menu.

    2) Press Alt, press Windows-D

    I can repro this, and it's interesting.  I note Windows Explorer behaves the same way, though: Open Windows Explorer, press Alt-F to bring down the File drop-down menu, then press Windows-D.  The menu remains.

    Esc dismisses the drop-down menu in both situations.

  • cescotto

    Matthew van Eerde wrote:
    1) Press Alt twice

    I can repro this; it looks like expected behavior to me, though... this is not a menu bar so much as it is a single drop-down menu.


    Usually menus in the menubars get closed when you press ALT twice, I think that even a single popup menu should have the same behaviour.

    Matthew van Eerde wrote:
    

    2) Press Alt, press Windows-D

    I can repro this, and it's interesting.  I note Windows Explorer behaves the same way, though: Open Windows Explorer, press Alt-F to bring down the File drop-down menu, then press Windows-D.  The menu remains.


    Windows Explorer on XP or Vista? On XP as long as I remember if you press twice on XP's explorer the menu closes.

    I think that the menus should close in both the situations, when you press windowskey+d and when you press ALT another time.

  • lonecrow

    I have a simply request concerning most versions of WMP.  Why is there not a simply file -> open system?

    I have been using Microsoft products since pre-windows and whenever I open WMP to load a video and find myself searching around for some way to play it.  I don't want to create a play list, I don't want to add anything to my library I simply want to play the video.

    Typically I just go to Windows Explorer and do a right-click play but by then I choose to play with VLC since WMP has let me down.

    This trend in interface design seems to be spreading.  I recently changed my OS to Vista and I am constantly faced with new metaphores with no (obvious) option to fall back on old metaphores.

    -from the pet peeves dept






  • BryanF

    Maybe the next rev of channel9 needs the ability to automatically close threads that haven't been active for a month or so. At some point it becomes easier to start a new conversation rather than asking people to reread an old thread to reestablish context.

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