Coffeehouse Thread

62 posts

Forum Read Only

This forum has been made read only by the site admins. No new threads or comments can be added.

Saddam is dead - YAY!

Back to Forum: Coffeehouse
  • User profile image
    Cybermagell​an
  • User profile image
    nihilist

    This is "YAY!" why?

  • User profile image
    alwaysmc2

    the "YAY!" made me chuckle. Smiley

  • User profile image
    ElucidWeb

    nihilist wrote:
    This is "YAY!" why?


    Perhaps because putting aside the absurdity of the war a condemned murderer of over 182 people is being put to his death, thats why it deserves a "YAY"!


  • User profile image
    dahat

    Agreed.

    All I think I can really add is a nice loud:

    Bo-Ya!

  • User profile image
    TimWoodland

    ElucidWeb wrote:
    
    nihilist wrote: This is "YAY!" why?


    Perhaps because putting aside the absurdity of the war a condemned murderer of over 182 people is being put to his death, thats why it deserves a "YAY"!




    Is this also putting aside the unfair trial?

  • User profile image
    Cybermagell​an

    TimWoodland wrote:
    
    ElucidWeb wrote:
    nihilist wrote: This is "YAY!" why?


    Perhaps because putting aside the absurdity of the war a condemned murderer of over 182 people is being put to his death, thats why it deserves a "YAY"!




    Is this also putting aside the unfair trial?


    OK, ask yourself this question....

    Considering he never denied the death of all the people he killed, nor the people he gassed...what would specifically be a fair trial? And what would that do for him?

    They're already saying this is going to cause some issues since he's not being put through the trials of the 200,000 people he gassed...instead he's been put to death for the 182 people he killed.

    IN OTHER NEWS: People get put to death for the murder of 1 person. So 200,000 or 182...I still think he's got what he's deserved.

  • User profile image
    BryanF

    TimWoodland wrote:
    
    ElucidWeb wrote: 
    nihilist wrote: This is "YAY!" why?
    Perhaps because putting aside the absurdity of the war a condemned murderer of over 182 people is being put to his death, thats why it deserves a "YAY"!
    Is this also putting aside the unfair trial?
    Honestly, under what conditions do you think the conclusion would have been any different? Don't get me wrong: I appreciate the need for justice to be fair and impartial, but given the circumstances, I think it's a bit too optimistic to believe that Iraq would have such a court system at this point. For example, how many times was the judge threatened or his family attacked? The country's dealing with so many problems right now, and I think bringing Saddam to justice is an important part in their recovery, and so it's best that it went forward in an imperfect system rather than insist they wait until they have the government we wish they had--particularly when it was already quite clear from the outset that he was guilty of murdering so many people.

    I've got a lot of problems with the way this war has gone, and it isn't clear what the long term effect will be in terms of the violence, but I'm hoping for the best.

  • User profile image
    TimWoodland

    Let me first say that yes, I do believe Saddam deserved to be executed.  I don't think what he did was right, I don't think that anything he did should be excused.

    I simply do not think he was given a fair trial.  Would that have changed the outcome?, most likely not, but now we will never know.  In theory, he should have been tried and punished according to international law, which was not followed at all.

    According to Wikipedia (which should be taken with a grain of salt):

    ---
    "The human rights organization Amnesty International criticized the death sentence and said the trial was "deeply flawed and unfair." The process was marred by "serious flaws that call into question the capacity of the tribunal," Malcolm Stuart, director of Amnesty's Middle East and North Africa program, said. "in particular, political interference undermined the independence and impartiality of the court." [44] The specific concerns raised by Amnesty International include the status of the trial as a "Special Trial" (unconstitutional according to the Iraqi Constitution), political interference in trial proceedings by the removal of a judge mid-trial, exclusion of members of the defence team at points in the trial, assassination of multiple members of the defence team, and the closure of the trial before the defence team had completed presenting its legal case."
    ---

    Also, a cnn link:  http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/11/20/saddam.trial.unfair/index.html

    Excerpt from cnn article:

    ---
    "Sunday's report concludes that the prosecution undermined several guarantees necessary to a fair trial under international law, including the right to an independent and impartial court, the presumption of innocence, the ability to prepare a defense and the right to cross-examine witnesses."
    ---

    I just think no matter what crime is, or may have been, committed, EVERYONE should be entitled to a fair trial, which my personal opinion is that Saddam did not receive this. 

    The solution to tyranny is not more tyranny.  The solution would be for Saddam to be given a fair trial, and upon a guilty verdict, the opportunity to exhaust his right to appeals.  In a perfect world I guess...

  • User profile image
    Cybermagell​an

    Well if I remember right (after awhile I quit caring) didn't we give him over to the iraqi people to have their way with him...? They didn't do it right? Sorry they wanted the power they get the flak.

  • User profile image
    TimWoodland

    No. The U.S. military did not turn Saddam over to the Iraqi's until minutes before his execution. He was in U.S. custody, in a U.S. jail near the Baghdad airport.

  • User profile image
    rjdohnert

    Saddam Hussein got exactly what he needed to get.  He was an a#$hole, murderer, tyrant.  Did he give the people he brutally executed a fair trial?  Nope, F$%ck him.  The only regret I have is that they wont tell us where he is being buried, if they did I would take a special trip to Iraq, just to piss on his grave.  He better be lucky they didnt give the job to me, I would have made his execution so slow, so brutal, so painful he would have been begging to be hanged in under 2 minutes.  He got a fair trial, the Iraqi people got their pund of flesh but although now they will have to deal with the consequences of that.  My only question is what, nutless wonder, new president will take the troops out of Iraq.

    TimWoodland wrote:
    Let me first say that yes, I do believe Saddam deserved to be executed.  I don't think what he did was right, I don't think that anything he did should be excused.

    I simply do not think he was given a fair trial.  Would that have changed the outcome?, most likely not, but now we will never know.  In theory, he should have been tried and punished according to international law, which was not followed at all.

    According to Wikipedia (which should be taken with a grain of salt):

    ---
    "The human rights organization Amnesty International criticized the death sentence and said the trial was "deeply flawed and unfair." The process was marred by "serious flaws that call into question the capacity of the tribunal," Malcolm Stuart, director of Amnesty's Middle East and North Africa program, said. "in particular, political interference undermined the independence and impartiality of the court." [44] The specific concerns raised by Amnesty International include the status of the trial as a "Special Trial" (unconstitutional according to the Iraqi Constitution), political interference in trial proceedings by the removal of a judge mid-trial, exclusion of members of the defence team at points in the trial, assassination of multiple members of the defence team, and the closure of the trial before the defence team had completed presenting its legal case."
    ---

    Also, a cnn link:  http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/11/20/saddam.trial.unfair/index.html

    Excerpt from cnn article:

    ---
    "Sunday's report concludes that the prosecution undermined several guarantees necessary to a fair trial under international law, including the right to an independent and impartial court, the presumption of innocence, the ability to prepare a defense and the right to cross-examine witnesses."
    ---

    I just think no matter what crime is, or may have been, committed, EVERYONE should be entitled to a fair trial, which my personal opinion is that Saddam did not receive this. 

    The solution to tyranny is not more tyranny.  The solution would be for Saddam to be given a fair trial, and upon a guilty verdict, the opportunity to exhaust his right to appeals.  In a perfect world I guess...

  • User profile image
    rjdohnert

    He shouldnt have lived to stand trial.

    TimWoodland wrote:
    No. The U.S. military did not turn Saddam over to the Iraqi's until minutes before his execution. He was in U.S. custody, in a U.S. jail near the Baghdad airport.

  • User profile image
    BlackTiger

    But when and who will execute Bush?

    Bush has killed much more innocent people than Saddam.

    If you stumbled and fell down, it doesn't mean yet, that you're going in the wrong direction.
    Last modified
  • User profile image
    BlackTiger

    rjdohnert wrote:
    Saddam Hussein got exactly what he needed to get.  He was an a#$hole, murderer, tyrant.  Did he give the people he brutally executed a fair trial?  Nope, F$%ck him. 


    "Is it your religion?" (quote from speach between Satan and Doctor Who). There was a peace while Saddam was ruled Iraq. You just can't to keep peace in that region using democracy and humanity. It's Middle East, not West. West will never undestand the East.

    If you stumbled and fell down, it doesn't mean yet, that you're going in the wrong direction.
    Last modified
  • User profile image
    Jack Cade

    He must have been a very busy man to kill all those people by himself. I am surprised he had time to run the country.

  • User profile image
    W3bbo

    nihilist wrote:
    This is "YAY!" why?


    Some people will be glad to see him "go".

    I just question why an execution was necessary, isn't this going to cause more problems in the long-term (like reprisals, etc)?

  • User profile image
    Bas

    I doubt that this is going to cause more trouble. This hasn't been about Saddam or the former regime anymore for a while now. The trouble in the area is pretty much entirely between shiites and sunnis, or insurgents versus US coalition forces. Nobody cares about Saddam and his old regime anymore. Whoever is fighting there now isn't doing so because they approve of or oppose Saddam's regime. They're just fighting because they want to run the country next.

Conversation locked

This conversation has been locked by the site admins. No new comments can be made.