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Vista "upgrade" drops compliance checking, requires old OS to install

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  • User profile image
    cescotto
  • User profile image
    PetKnep

    http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070128-8717.html is the real link.

    What part is unclear to you? Ars spells it out pretty verbosely in my opinion.

    During an XP install on a formatted hd, you can just put in a Windows 2000 cd and it will continue. If the article is correct, you will need to have windows already installed on the box.

  • User profile image
    cescotto

    PetKnep wrote:
    http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070128-8717.html is the real link.

    What part is unclear to you? Ars spells it out pretty verbosely in my opinion.

    During an XP install on a formatted hd, you can just put in a Windows 2000 cd and it will continue. If the article is correct, you will need to have windows already installed on the box.


    With XP I can make a clean install with a 2k CD, but what about Vista?

    Is it true that I will be forced first to install XP, then to install Vista over it ending up with a dirty install?

  • User profile image
    PetKnep

    cescotto wrote:
    
    PetKnep wrote: http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070128-8717.html is the real link.

    What part is unclear to you? Ars spells it out pretty verbosely in my opinion.

    During an XP install on a formatted hd, you can just put in a Windows 2000 cd and it will continue. If the article is correct, you will need to have windows already installed on the box.


    With XP I can make a clean install with a 2k CD, but what about Vista?

    Is it true that I will be forced first to install XP, then to install Vista over it ending up with a dirty install?


    The whole point of the article is to let you know about http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx/kb/930985/en-us

    The KB says you can't just install Vista on a formatted hd by putting in the XP cd. You will have to install XP first.

    I still don't get what part of this was unclear from the original article.

    "Dirty install"? Give me a break...

  • User profile image
    Secret​Software

    When you install Vista, it will rename your old windows installation to Windows.Old.

    You can delete that folder later on.

    But I guess he is asking , why not be able to install the Vista image directly from DVD, without having an OS already in the machine. Similar to when you install Win 98 or XP on a formatted HD.

  • User profile image
    cescotto

    PetKnep wrote:
    

    The whole point of the article is to let you know about http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx/kb/930985/en-us

    The KB says you can't just install Vista on a formatted hd by putting in the XP cd. You will have to install XP first.

    I still don't get what part of this was unclear from the original article.



    So the article is right, from Vista people will be forced to install OVER a precedent XP install. On XP instead you could have done a clean install without having to install windows 2000 first.

    PetKnep wrote:
    
    "Dirty install"? Give me a break...


    http://www.eweek.com/slideshow_viewer/0,1205,l=&s=27381&a=187782&po=3,00.asp?p=y

    I can't wait when i'll have to upgrade some of my friends laptops that have plenty of crapware installed by the recovery disc (and no clean XP install cd) that will be ported to the new vista install. Great!!!!!

  • User profile image
    cescotto

    SecretSoftware wrote:
    When you install Vista, it will rename your old windows installation to Windows.Old.

    You can delete that folder later on.

    But I guess he is asking , why not be able to install the Vista image directly from DVD, without having an OS already in the machine. Similar to when you install Win 98 or XP on a formatted HD.


    The point was that most laptops and PCs come with XP recovery CDs, and not with clean XP cds. So people will be forced to upgrade XP installs full of crapware (that gets installed by the recovery disc) that will be moved to vista.

  • User profile image
    PetKnep

    cescotto wrote:


    What am I supposed to see in the link? All I see is http://common.ziffdavisinternet.com/util_get_image/13/0,1425,sz=1&i=138523,00.jpg

    A windows upgrade screen. I don't get it.

    Ok, you're dissatisfied with the new system. Why didn't you make that your original argument?

  • User profile image
    Secret​Software

    cescotto wrote:
    
    SecretSoftware wrote:When you install Vista, it will rename your old windows installation to Windows.Old.

    You can delete that folder later on.

    But I guess he is asking , why not be able to install the Vista image directly from DVD, without having an OS already in the machine. Similar to when you install Win 98 or XP on a formatted HD.


    The point was that most laptops and PCs come with XP recovery CDs, and not with clean XP cds. So people will be forced to upgrade XP installs full of crapware (that gets installed by the recovery disc) that will be moved to vista.


    ALL of the "crapware" will be in the Windows.Old folder which you can delete. The Clean Vista Image will be installed in a seperate folder.

    You can delete the windows.Old, that you think is full of crapware.

  • User profile image
    PetKnep

    cescotto wrote:
    
    SecretSoftware wrote: When you install Vista, it will rename your old windows installation to Windows.Old.

    You can delete that folder later on.

    But I guess he is asking , why not be able to install the Vista image directly from DVD, without having an OS already in the machine. Similar to when you install Win 98 or XP on a formatted HD.


    The point was that most laptops and PCs come with XP recovery CDs, and not with clean XP cds. So people will be forced to upgrade XP installs full of crapware (that gets installed by the recovery disc) that will be moved to vista.


    Isn't that the OEMs fault? You should ask for a full install, not a recovery cd. They put on the helper apps, not MS.

    AFIAK you can not accept the EULAs (at least at Dell) if you don't like the software they've installed (before running it at least) and return the box.

  • User profile image
    PetKnep

    SecretSoftware wrote:
    
    ALL of the "crapware" will be in the Windows.Old folder which you can delete. The Clean Vista Image will be installed in a seperate folder.

    You can delete the windows.Old, that you think is full of crapware.


    No, all the software (desired or not) should remain installed in Vista if it was installed under XP before upgrading.

  • User profile image
    cescotto

    PetKnep wrote:
    
    cescotto wrote: 

    http://www.eweek.com/slideshow_viewer/0,1205,l=&s=27381&a=187782&po=3,00.asp?p=y



    What am I supposed to see in the link? All I see is http://common.ziffdavisinternet.com/util_get_image/13/0,1425,sz=1&i=138523,00.jpg

    A windows upgrade screen. I don't get it.


    http://www.accessmylibrary.com/coms2/summary_0286-22956121_ITM

    While our upgrade experience was fairly good, we recommend that administrators opt instead for a clean install, teamed perhaps with Vista's Windows Easy Transfer utility for carrying over files and settings from the previous install. Not only is a clean install much faster than an upgrade, our tests show, but the significant changes in how Windows Vista handles software installation bring the possibility of compatibility issues that might not be immediately apparent.

    PetKnep wrote:
    
    Ok, you're dissatisfied with the new system. Why didn't you make that your original argument?


    I thought that was obvious when reading this thread's title. The point is, can a clean install be done after vista verified the existance of an XP install or am I forced to upgrade that XP install?

  • User profile image
    Secret​Software

    PetKnep wrote:
    
    SecretSoftware wrote:
    ALL of the "crapware" will be in the Windows.Old folder which you can delete. The Clean Vista Image will be installed in a seperate folder.

    You can delete the windows.Old, that you think is full of crapware.


    No, all the software (desired or not) should remain installed in Vista if it was installed under XP before upgrading.

     
    I am talking about the Windows folder being infected with spyware and other stuff (system32 etc..)

    And yes, all  software (Acrobat readers , Mp3 players etc..) will be there.

  • User profile image
    cescotto

    SecretSoftware wrote:
    
    PetKnep wrote: 
    SecretSoftware wrote: 
    ALL of the "crapware" will be in the Windows.Old folder which you can delete. The Clean Vista Image will be installed in a seperate folder.

    You can delete the windows.Old, that you think is full of crapware.


    No, all the software (desired or not) should remain installed in Vista if it was installed under XP before upgrading.

     
    I am talking about the Windows folder being infected with spyware and other stuff (system32 etc..)

    And yes, all  software (Acrobat readers , Mp3 players etc..) will be there.


    I was talking about all those crappy applications bundled in the recover CDs that you get with newer PCs and laptops (and obviously all the registry stuff that vista will probably import from the old XP install).

  • User profile image
    PetKnep

    cescotto wrote:
    

    http://www.accessmylibrary.com/coms2/summary_0286-22956121_ITM

    While our upgrade experience was fairly good, we recommend that administrators opt instead for a clean install, teamed perhaps with Vista's Windows Easy Transfer utility for carrying over files and settings from the previous install. Not only is a clean install much faster than an upgrade, our tests show, but the significant changes in how Windows Vista handles software installation bring the possibility of compatibility issues that might not be immediately apparent.


    Well, I can't read the article so I can't refute any of its points. I'll have to just refute the summary with anecdotal evidence.

    My dell laptop was upgraded from XP to Vista RTM on the day of RTM, still going strong. I think everyone will be ok.

  • User profile image
    cescotto

    PetKnep wrote:
    

    Well, I can't read the article so I can't refute any of its points. I'll have to just refute the summary with anecdotal evidence.

    My dell laptop was upgraded from XP to Vista RTM on the day of RTM, still going strong. I think everyone will be ok.


    What about all the people that upgrade their computer components often? Every time they upgrade a motherboard and vista stops working because of drivers issues, they'll have to format, reinstall xp, and install vista every time?

  • User profile image
    PetKnep

    cescotto wrote:
    
    PetKnep wrote: 

    Well, I can't read the article so I can't refute any of its points. I'll have to just refute the summary with anecdotal evidence.

    My dell laptop was upgraded from XP to Vista RTM on the day of RTM, still going strong. I think everyone will be ok.


    What about all the people that upgrade their computer components often? Every time they upgrade a motherboard and vista stops working because of drivers issues, they'll have to format, reinstall xp, and install vista every time?


    People upgrade their computers often, yes. This forces a reinstall of Windows? I haven't heard of a case where someone changed the motherboard under XP and "driver issues" warranted a reinstall. I definately haven't heard of a case under Vista.

    Now you're just speculating about events that might happen in the future with no evidence to back up that such a condition exists.

  • User profile image
    Secret​Software

    PetKnep wrote:
    
    cescotto wrote:
    PetKnep wrote: 

    Well, I can't read the article so I can't refute any of its points. I'll have to just refute the summary with anecdotal evidence.

    My dell laptop was upgraded from XP to Vista RTM on the day of RTM, still going strong. I think everyone will be ok.


    What about all the people that upgrade their computer components often? Every time they upgrade a motherboard and vista stops working because of drivers issues, they'll have to format, reinstall xp, and install vista every time?


    People upgrade their computers often, yes. This forces a reinstall of Windows? I haven't heard of a case where someone changed the motherboard under XP and "driver issues" warranted a reinstall. I definately haven't heard of a case under Vista.

    Now you're just speculating about events that might happen in the future with no evidence to back up that such a condition exists.


    What about a virus hitting the OS?

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