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Once you go Vista you'll never go XP

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  • User profile image
    Cybermagell​an

    I guess litterally....

    Vista upgrade invalidates your XP CD Key

    "If you choose to purchase an upgrade version of Windows Vista to upgrade XP, you will no longer be able to use that version of XP. Either on another system, or as a dual-boot option. The key will be invalidated, preventing activation."

  • User profile image
    Jaz

    thats fair enough though, people seem to be making a big deal out of this.

  • User profile image
    jamie

    thats because people like to feel if they buy software - it is there's and should not be limited

    when i upgrade Coreldraw - they dont nuke the old version

    this is just more of the same nickel and dime customer milking that ballmer seems to love so much

    <insert pic from The Magic Christian of businessmen jumping into pig feces for free money>

  • User profile image
    AndyC

    It doesn't say the key is disabled, just that you can't legally reuse it (nothing new there).

    I don't know if WGA is wired to enforce this, but it would certainly be possible to engineer a solution which did so without breaking the XP key. Activating the XP key would simply deactivate the Vista upgrade and likewise the other way round. Limiting the frequency you can do this would mostly prevent abuse, without hindering legit users.

  • User profile image
    W3bbo

    Cybermagellan wrote:
    I guess litterally....

    Vista upgrade invalidates your XP CD Key

    "If you choose to purchase an upgrade version of Windows Vista to upgrade XP, you will no longer be able to use that version of XP. Either on another system, or as a dual-boot option. The key will be invalidated, preventing activation."


    This goes against previous EULAs from Microsoft that granted you "back licenses" to previous versions of Windows (i.e. an XP Pro license granted you the right to use 2000, NT4, and NT3), why the change in policy?

    This just reeks of unnecessary evilness. I guess they want to stop people from using their upgraded copies of XP on another machine.

    ...but anyone buying "Upgrade" would be for an OEM machine anyway, and you can't use those in other machines at all.

    Self-defeatism?

  • User profile image
    cescotto

    AndyC wrote:
    It doesn't say the key is disabled, just that you can't legally reuse it (nothing new there).I don't know if WGA is wired to enforce this, but it would certainly be possible to engineer a solution which did so without breaking the XP key. Activating the XP key would simply deactivate the Vista upgrade and likewise the other way round. Limiting the frequency you can do this would mostly prevent abuse, without hindering legit users.



    I think you missed the real pieces of the story:

    - the upgrade versions of vista home premium and vista home basic can be installed only over a previous XP install

    - once you upgraded your XP install with Vista you can't legally use the XP copy you upgraded anymore (the key probably will still work, but the EULA says you can't use your previous XP copy anymore).

    Now let's combine the pieces.

    Once you upgrade your XP to vista home premium if for some reasons vista home premium stops working you should:

    - format and reinstall XP (Vista home premium upgrade can upgrade only a previous XP install)
    - install Vista over XP

    The problem is that you can't legally reinstall XP! That is illegal because the EULA says that after you upgrade you can't use that XP copy anymore and doesn't include cases in which you want to remove Vista and start using XP again.

    Who made those lame changes in the Vista EULA at MS not only should be fired, but should be kicked in the (I need to watch my language) out of the company's offices.

  • User profile image
    jamie

    cescotto wrote:
    
    Who made those lame changes in the Vista EULA at MS
     
    not only should be fired, but should be kicked in the (I need to watch my language) out of the company's offices.


    salesguys with too much time on their hands - so SCARED that vista wont perfom they are setting as many bad vibe boobey traps in as many places as they can.  For every tid bid of good - luke warm press ms receives - it is counter acted almost imediately by these boneheaded morons.

    MS: please stop putting "bad vibes" into vista
    Stop being like Quickbooks.  All these little gotchas all add up to a big - drag. 

    Call a press conference tomorrow - and announce that all these nitpicky little party spoilers have been fired and that vista will be restored to being NICE Windows again (not monitor, bank, vending machine, locked, tricky, MEAN windows anymore)

    sorry - this bugs me to no end. these goofs are wrecking windows mindshare

    (deep breath)

    grr.

  • User profile image
    mstefan

    Who does this really affect though? Your typical home user doesn't bounce between operating systems; heck, most wouldn't even know how to go about reformatting the drive and reinstalling the operating system. The version of Windows they have is the version they use and don't know anything about what's under the proverbial covers (and frankly, they don't want to know).

    It is going to be a hassle for the PC techs who get those systems in for repair, and for enthusiasts who are likely the ones who'd be installing and uninstalling. If it's really that much of a concern, then just buy the full version (I'm not taking a moral position here, just a practical one). And you can install XP without immediately activating it; you have 60 days. So you just install XP, then install Vista on top. The XP key never comes into play, and I feel confident in saying that a team of Microsoft lawyers will not decend on your house when you insert the old XP disc.

    Personally, I don't like the requiment for in-place upgrades simply because it makes a mess. The upgrade takes about 50% longer than a clean install, and can still result in a system that has quirky behavior or is unstable (usually related to drivers). Starting with a clean slate has always been the best way to install Windows, not carrying forward the cruft from a previous installation.

    I understand Microsoft's position with regard to piracy, but I am in agreement that I think they've gotten too restrictive in this case.

  • User profile image
    cescotto

    jamie wrote:
    
    cescotto wrote: 
    Who made those lame changes in the Vista EULA at MS
     
    not only should be fired, but should be kicked in the (I need to watch my language) out of the company's offices.


    salesguys with too much time on their hands - so SCARED that vista wont perfom they are setting as many bad vibe boobey traps in as many places as they can.  For every tid bid of good - luke warm press ms receives - it is counter acted almost imediately by these boneheaded morons.


    What's funny is that with those restrictions at the end they've obtained nothing except community backslash and an enormous amount of bad press.

    - The restrictions about the user license? They were forced to remove them immediately.
    - The restrictions about the vista upgrade (no clean install with the upgrade)? People will still buy the upgrade copies but they will curse Microsoft's name for the rest of their days.
    - The restriction for the XP upgrade? I really doubt that somebody is really going to buy another XP copy in order to reinstall an upgrade version of Vista.

    jamie wrote:
    
    MS: please stop putting "bad vibes" into vista
    Stop being like Quickbooks.  All these little gotchas all add up to a big - drag. 

    Call a press conference tomorrow - and announce that all these nitpicky little party spoilers have been fired and that vista will be restored to being NICE Windows again (not monitor, bank, vending machine, locked, tricky, MEAN windows anymore)

    sorry - this bugs me to no end. these goofs are wrecking windows mindshare

    (deep breath)

    grr.


    Wise words. I quote them completely Tongue Out

  • User profile image
    LostIn​Tangent

    mstefan wrote:
    

    Who does this really affect though? Your typical home user doesn't bounce between operating systems; heck, most wouldn't even know how to go about reformatting the drive and reinstalling the operating system. The version of Windows they have is the version they use and don't know anything about what's under the proverbial covers (and frankly, they don't want to know).

    It is going to be a hassle for the PC techs who get those systems in for repair, and for enthusiasts who are likely the ones who'd be installing and uninstalling. If it's really that much of a concern, then just buy the full version (I'm not taking a moral position here, just a practical one). And you can install XP without immediately activating it; you have 60 days. So you just install XP, then install Vista on top. The XP key never comes into play, and I feel confident in saying that a team of Microsoft lawyers will not decend on your house when you insert the old XP disc.

    Personally, I don't like the requiment for in-place upgrades simply because it makes a mess. The upgrade takes about 50% longer than a clean install, and can still result in a system that has quirky behavior or is unstable (usually related to drivers). Starting with a clean slate has always been the best way to install Windows, not carrying forward the cruft from a previous installation.

    I understand Microsoft's position with regard to piracy, but I am in agreement that I think they've gotten too restrictive in this case.



    Well put.

  • User profile image
    AndyC

    W3bbo wrote:
    

    This goes against previous EULAs from Microsoft that granted you "back licenses" to previous versions of Windows (i.e. an XP Pro license granted you the right to use 2000, NT4, and NT3), why the change in policy?

    Downgrade rights are only granted in the Product Usage Rights (PUR) you agree to as a Volume License user. They've never been granted in the EULA, at least as far as I recall.

    cescotto wrote:
    
    The problem is that you can't legally reinstall XP! That is illegal because the EULA says that after you upgrade you can't use that XP copy anymore 

     


    I think you have to struggle to interpet the EULA to mean that. Installing the old XP as part of the Vista install wouldn't be considered 'using' the old OS.

    XP EULA wrote:
    9. UPGRADES. To use Software identified as an upgrade, you must first be licensed for the software identified by Microsoft as eligible for the upgrade. After upgrading, you may no longer use the software that formed the basis for your upgrade eligibility.

    Sound familiar? Nothing has changed here, it's a non-story.

  • User profile image
    cescotto

    mstefan wrote:
    
    I understand Microsoft's position with regard to piracy, but I am in agreement that I think they've gotten too restrictive in this case.


    I don't think that the upgrade restrictions have anything to do with piracy: they're just an attempt to force tech-savvy users to buy full retail versions of vista.

    Just think about it: if previously people were able to install XP having a 2k cd borrowed from a friend, what changes now? They can simply install a XP copy borrowed from a friend without activating it and then installing Vista over it. Nothing changes.

    Those license restrictions just hit a minority of Windows users however those users are the most tech-savvy elements of the windows community (that usually change hardware and format often).

    MS for a very insignificant amount of money is screwing up all the tech entusiasts that are supporting them: this is simply nonsense and the marketing people that came up with those weird ideas should be fired.

  • User profile image
    jamie

    "Nothing has changed here, it's a non-story."

    even if that "non-story" were to mean that MS will fly to your house and help you load xp again and bring free kittens - the damage is done already.

    one more story about Vista's ever tightening screws....linked all over... again

  • User profile image
    AndyC

    cescotto wrote:
    

    Just think about it: if previously people were able to install XP having a 2k cd borrowed from a friend, what changes now? They can simply install a XP copy borrowed from a friend without activating it and then installing Vista over it. Nothing changes.


    I would assume you have to activate XP in order to upgrade.

    The intent here seems to be to prevent that "borrow a mates cd" to get a cheap upgrade that you aren't entitled to. Nothing more sinister than that.

  • User profile image
    cescotto

    AndyC wrote:
    
    I think you have to struggle to interpet the EULA to mean that. Installing the old XP as part of the Vista install wouldn't be considered 'using' the old OS.


    Aren't you using the "software" when you're installing (and activating) XP again?

    AndyC wrote:
    

    Sound familiar? Nothing has changed here, it's a non-story.


    What has changed is the fact that now some Vista versions can be installed only over a previous XP install and this means that if you want to reinstall those Vista versions you have first to reinstall XP (but you can't, because reinstalling and activating it would mean USING it and if you already upgraded once you can't do it again).

  • User profile image
    cescotto

    AndyC wrote:
    
    cescotto wrote: 

    Just think about it: if previously people were able to install XP having a 2k cd borrowed from a friend, what changes now? They can simply install a XP copy borrowed from a friend without activating it and then installing Vista over it. Nothing changes.


    I would assume you have to activate XP in order to upgrade.

    The intent here seems to be to prevent that "borrow a mates cd" to get a cheap upgrade that you aren't entitled to. Nothing more sinister than that.


    There's no need to activate XP "borrowed from friends" edition (VLK keys, .REG keys that also include the activation data).

  • User profile image
    Cannot​Resolve​Symbol

    AndyC wrote:
    

    W3bbo wrote:

    This goes against previous EULAs from Microsoft that granted you "back licenses" to previous versions of Windows (i.e. an XP Pro license granted you the right to use 2000, NT4, and NT3), why the change in policy?

    Downgrade rights are only granted in the Product Usage Rights (PUR) you agree to as a Volume License user. They've never been granted in the EULA, at least as far as I recall.

    Actually, the XP Professional EULA (but Professional only, not MCE or Tablet Edition) includes downgrade rights.  See Section 1.7 of the EULA for Windows XP Professional.  I don't know if this clause is in the sample EULA online, but it's in the EULA on my XP machine.

  • User profile image
    AndyC

    jamie wrote:

    one more story about Vista's ever tightening screws....linked all over... again


    All being read by a tiny minority made up of geeks who actually care and are under the mistaken impression that Joe Public does too.

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