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Iran/U.K. - Worlds first double pwnage?

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  • User profile image
    Harlequin

    Never felt this way after a news item like this before, but I have no idea what just went on.

  • User profile image
    Sourcecode

    What news are you guy's talking about ? The capture of the 15 solders in Iranian waters? Or something that has yet to hit the wires over here in France?

  • User profile image
    thumbtacks2

    I'm sure having a few U.S. aircraft carriers offshore (and one French one I think) probably expedited things a bit. But yes, it's been a weird story to follow.

  • User profile image
    littleguru

    Well the UK guys (+ gal) were "kidnapped" exactly in the Iranian new year's celebration time span => lot of the political people were on vacation.

    It was the "reformal garde" that kidnapped them (the very very hardliner). Iranian's president is one of these guys (not the garde, but a hardliner - against US etc.).

    Now all the politicians are back from vacation and internally (from the inside of Iran) a lot of people (politicians) were pressing on Ahmadinedschad. Now he had to release the hostages...

    The pressure was enormous (from internally). There is a lot people in Iran that doesn't like a war with the rest of the world. They would like to have stable relations with the other world. It's just the hardliners that don't care.

    ... that's how most news stations and so called "experts" explained it here.

  • User profile image
    littleguru

    Sourcecode wrote:
    What news are you guy's talking about ? The capture of the 15 solders in Iranian waters? Or something that has yet to hit the wires over here in France?


    Yes.

  • User profile image
    Sourcecode

    littleguru wrote:
    
    Sourcecode wrote: What news are you guy's talking about ? The capture of the 15 solders in Iranian waters? Or something that has yet to hit the wires over here in France?


    Yes.


    I’m reading allot of stuff suggesting it was planned as a scapegoat to attack Iran (taken with a grain of salt for now). We all can se war in Iran is imminent (sad as that is). It’s kind of sick if we attack a country because their leaders are nucking futs. Not to mention Iran is much better equipped then Iraq or Afghanistan.

    Anyway yes; it is escalating.
     

  • User profile image
    billh

    Sourcecode wrote:
    It’s kind of sick if we attack a country because their leaders are nucking futs. 
    Here's the catch: that country has a leader who thinks it's his duty to bring about worldwide armageddon. He actually wants that to happen. How do you confront that type of thinking? I dunno, but I think the next few days will be very telling, as will this summer.

  • User profile image
    Sourcecode

    billh wrote:
    
    Sourcecode wrote: It’s kind of sick if we attack a country because their leaders are nucking futs. 

    Here's the catch: that country has a leader who thinks it's his duty to bring about worldwide armageddon. He actually wants that to happen. How do you confront that type of thinking? I dunno, but I think the next few days will be very telling, as will this summer.



    I agree something needs to be done. I just don’t like the idea of nukes going off in heavily populated areas killing innocent Iranians (that I don’t know but may someday like to). The idea that we use the alleged “kidnapping of 15 British (or otherwise)” military personnel for a pretext to attack a country where most people probably don’t even have a choice.

    I don’t get how the US/UK/France/UN heck most of the free world can’t find a couple hundred bad apples in the barrel and take em out. I mean come on, we have smart laser sighted missiles that can hit a fly on a pile of camel crap from 1000 km away. Though I do understand the reluctance to do so.

    I just hope there is another way besides all out war because that's what it'll be; World War 3.

     

  • User profile image
    daSmirnov

    littleguru wrote:
    Well the UK guys (+ gal) were "kidnapped" exactly in the Iranian new year's celebration time span => lot of the political people were on vacation.


    Kidnapped?  Iran has the right to defend its borders from foreign intrusion.

    As with the previous thing in Iran, China etc.  An apology behind closed doors and the issue is resolved.

  • User profile image
    Bas

    Amadhinejad (or however you spell that) is taking a lot of flak from his own countrymen as well. Even the ajatollah there wasn't too keen on his talk of religious visions and messages from God. I think a lot of people from the Iranian government aren't too keen on worldwide armageddon either. If their president goes too far, they won't sit back and watch.

  • User profile image
    Bas

    daSmirnov wrote:
    Kidnapped?  Iran has the right to defend its borders from foreign intrusion.


    Not by arresting foreign soldiers in foreign waters. There still hasn't been any conclusive evidence that shows wether they were in Iraq's or Iran's waters. It's Iran's word against that of Britain and an Indian freightship.

  • User profile image
    Refrax

    Bas wrote:
    
    daSmirnov wrote: Kidnapped?  Iran has the right to defend its borders from foreign intrusion.


    Not by arresting foreign soldiers in foreign waters. There still hasn't been any conclusive evidence that shows wether they were in Iraq's or Iran's waters. It's Iran's word against that of Britain and an Indian freightship.


    didn't Britain have GPS data that shows they were not in Iran's waters?

  • User profile image
    littleguru

    Refrax wrote:
    
    Bas wrote: 
    daSmirnov wrote: Kidnapped?  Iran has the right to defend its borders from foreign intrusion.


    Not by arresting foreign soldiers in foreign waters. There still hasn't been any conclusive evidence that shows wether they were in Iraq's or Iran's waters. It's Iran's word against that of Britain and an Indian freightship.


    didn't Britain have GPS data that shows they were not in Iran's waters?


    There is no clear border in that region. And the "we were not in Iran's waters" thing was just mentioned the first day. Nothing afterwards. I think they were just wrong... They were in Irianian waters.

  • User profile image
    Angus

    I personally think that we (the British) should have made a conditional apology, stating that "if we were in Iranian waters then we are sorry about this and it will not happen again", thus making sure that the apology does not apply if we were in fact not in the waters.

    The problem being a civilian is that one can only absorb what information one has access to, and from my limited experience, a lot of British media organisations have been stating that we were in the right. I don't know if this was true, but the same will have happened in Iran and thus either country wanting to apologise would probably be unlikely.

    Angus Higgins

  • User profile image
    jb43081

    Bas wrote:
    Amadhinejad (or however you spell that) is taking a lot of flak from his own countrymen as well. Even the ajatollah there wasn't too keen on his talk of religious visions and messages from God. I think a lot of people from the Iranian government aren't too keen on worldwide armageddon either. If their president goes too far, they won't sit back and watch.


    Actually, Amadhinejad is NOT the supreme leader of Iran; Ali Khamenei is. And I don't believe he's too keen on where Amadhinejad is trying to take things. Plus, Khamenei controls the military, so Amadhinejad (by the way, that's WAY too hard to type, so from now on I will be referring to as "Andy") can't just "charge off" to war on his own, he needs permission.

  • User profile image
    dahat

    littleguru wrote:
    There is no clear border in that region. And the "we were not in Iran's waters" thing was just mentioned the first day. Nothing afterwards. I think they were just wrong... They were in Irianian waters.


    Odd that... cause all we’ve heard in the US was the assertion from the British that they were in Iraqi waters and not Iranian.


    Angus wrote:
    I personally think that we (the British) should have made a conditional apology, stating that "if we were in Iranian waters then we are sorry about this and it will not happen again", thus making sure that the apology does not apply if we were in fact not in the waters.


    Wouldn’t the problem with that be the idea that perception can often become reality?

    The Iranians contend that the sailors and marines were captured in Iranian waters and with such a vague quasi apology it doesn’t take much for them to spin it as a full blown confession... something they are already doing with an alleged letter written to them by the British Government which plays right into the Iranians hands as they’ve been demanding that Brittan admit guilt right from the start.

    End result... Iran and President Ahmadinejad gets to come off looking respectable by being so forgiving of the actions of a few individuals only following orders and victorious because the evil British empire has taken the blame.

  • User profile image
    ScanIAm

    littleguru wrote:
    
    Refrax wrote: 
    Bas wrote: 
    daSmirnov wrote: Kidnapped?  Iran has the right to defend its borders from foreign intrusion.


    Not by arresting foreign soldiers in foreign waters. There still hasn't been any conclusive evidence that shows wether they were in Iraq's or Iran's waters. It's Iran's word against that of Britain and an Indian freightship.


    didn't Britain have GPS data that shows they were not in Iran's waters?


    There is no clear border in that region. And the "we were not in Iran's waters" thing was just mentioned the first day. Nothing afterwards. I think they were just wrong... They were in Irianian waters.


    Quite possible, and if the boundary is so vague, this was probably a bit of the Iranian military showing some strength around their borders.  It seems to have all worked out well, and as long as they weren't tortured, neither the UK nor Iran look bad in my eyes.

  • User profile image
    Harlequin

    Weird nobody else is irked that the soldiers seemed to fold the way they did. On TV apologizing within a few days, not they have nice suits on shaking the Iranians hands and apologizing.

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