Coffeehouse Thread

11 posts

Forum Read Only

This forum has been made read only by the site admins. No new threads or comments can be added.

Ubuntu! Ubuntu! Ubuntu!

Back to Forum: Coffeehouse
  • User profile image
    fdisk

    Found this article today...it seems pretty balanced, and surprisingly, most of the results come back as narrow victories for Vista, or even as a tie.

    Ubuntu Linux Vs. Windows Vista: The Battle For Your Desktop


    InfoWeek wrote:
    Ubuntu's best strength is handling the ordinary task-based day-to-day stuff. Vista has a level of completeness and polish that some people find it hard to do without.

  • User profile image
    Xaero_​Vincent

    Ubuntu doesnt compare well to Vista.

    Vista is actually a decent OS (at least as far as security features are concerned), just overpriced; whereas Ubuntu is free but crap.

    Just because its #1 on distrowatch doesnt mean its the best.

    I dont think even the best distributions (SLED/openSUSE and RHEL/Fedora)  can quite compare yet. Vista has a superior desktop environment ATM. Gnome and KDE are working on their next generation pieces but they are several months away. They are currently up to date with Windows XP's desktop environment (sort to speak).

  • User profile image
    stevo_

    Firefox, Ubuntu.

    What do they have in common? both marketed as being something great... if only they had as much effort as people do 'pimping' them. Then maybe some day they could actually compete with Microsoft instead of yet more marketing crud trying to prove what they aren't.

  • User profile image
    wkempf

    emet wrote:
    It seems to be a little biased towards Windows, at least the different "features" he is comparing. But a well thought out review none the less.


    Really?

    Installation - If this section is biased towards windows, then you've proven one of the biggest complaints about Linux.  However, it's not, because Linux distros have come a long way with regards to installation.

    Hardware and PnP - Uhmm... if this is a bias towards Windows, Ubuntu's got problems.  In fact, Linux in general does have issues with hardware support, but I find it wrong to consider this comparison biased just because Linux doesn't support every piece of hardware under the sun.

    Software installation - Since you brag about apt, I guess you don't consider this one biased.

    Word processing - Since Windows doesn't come with anything other than WordPad, I'd say this was biased towards Ubuntu.  If he hadn't dinged them for the fact that Office is a separate purchase I'd have a different opinion.  But then, in that case I'm sure Vista would have one this category easily.

    Indexing/search - Maybe a Vista bias, since this is a core feature of Vista, while it's just an add-on program for Ubuntu.

    Multimedia - Since this is the #1 thing computers are used for, if Ubuntu can't live up here then it simply can't live up, period.  Can't call this one a feature that leads to a Vista bias.

    Image editing/picture management - See multimedia.

    Backup/Restore - A core requirement for computers since the beginning.  Don't think you can use this one for declaring bias either.

    So, which sections lead to a Vista bias again?

  • User profile image
    k2t0f12d

    wkempf wrote:
    However, it's not, because Linux distros have come a long way with regards to installation.


    Damn right.  Ever try installing an operating system with a Linux kernel directly from source code! :-O

  • User profile image
    nightski

    If Ubuntu cost the same would you choose it over Vista?  IMHO, the answer to this question needs to be yes if Ubuntu is going to see any significant increase in market share.

  • User profile image
    dotnetjunkie

    While the underlying OS of Ubuntu is solid, it's desktop / windowing system is crap.  And it looks very unfinished as well (maybe that's an understatement, design people call it plain ugly).

    Ubuntu has a LOOOONG way to go if they want to target the desktop market...

    Problem is, they're playing catch-up all the time, and history should have learned them that playing catch-up with Microsoft is a very bad idea / waste of time.

    I think they should forget the whole desktop thing and focus on server and embedded applications.

  • User profile image
    k2t0f12d

    dotnetjunkie wrote:
    While the underlying OS of Ubuntu is solid, it's desktop / windowing system is crap.  And it looks very unfinished as well (maybe that's an understatement, design people call it plain ugly).


    My host OS is Ubuntu `Edgy Eft' 6.10 with the K desktop environment.  It looks and behaves just fine and dandy everyday.

    dotnetjunkie wrote:
    Ubuntu has a LOOOONG way to go if they want to target the desktop market...

    Thats funny because Ubuntu doesn't have a price tag?  How can it be in a market?

    dotnetjunkie wrote:
    Problem is, they're playing catch-up all the time, and history should have learned them that playing catch-up with Microsoft is a very bad idea / waste of time.

    If it is the desktop environment exclusively of where you believe any *nix is "catching up" to Microsoft, it is not specifically Ubuntu devs who are competing.  In that case it is the GNOME and K desktop projects who are competing for the "look".  In any other case it is a very long list of projects who are developing other functions for the free desktop, most of which are not glued to Ubuntu.

    dotnetjunkie wrote:
    I think they should forget the whole desktop thing and focus on server and embedded applications.

    Good thing for me that GNU, KDE, GNOME and pretty much all FOSS developers do not care about what you think at all.

  • User profile image
    Sabot

    Linux on the desktop has not grabbed the imagination of Joe Public, it's missing that vital element that Mac OSX has and is at risk of loosing and Vista is competing to get.

    So what is it? Cool.

    Linux just isn't cool enough anymore, it's not enough to have a good looking GUI, it now has to perform each action with an sutle easy, simplicity and intelligence only hinting at the understated power under the bonet to give confidently but hide the complexity.

    So are computers and OS becoming like fashion items? Yes, infact when have they never not been? The only difference these days is that OS are far more ingrained into the public consciousness, Joe public street will know what Windows is, will have used it and had more than a few years experience behind him, but is fickle so isn't wedded to it (hence the rise of the Mac) but has no wish to go backwards in anyway only forwards.

    So is Linux Desktop going to catch up? Not unless it pulls something gets pulled out of the bag and like it or not this is going to take investment, either in peoples time or lots of money, Linux Desktop needs that compelling killer edge ... and to do everything else eveyone else can do, being free isn't enough! Yes seriously, people still believe in paying money for things, if something is free it's not going to be as good as something you pay for right? This is the kind of thinking Linux has worked hard onto turn around in the eyes of Joe Public.

    As for the big boys like IBM & Oracle, they aren't interested in a Linux Desktop really, they know that fight is won, there is no profit in it.

    So am I saying Linux Desktop guys pack up and go home? No not at all just be realistic about what you have and what you have to do, if you are honest about Linux and do a good job in making up the difference then you will turn things around. Good luck to you. 

  • User profile image
    Xaero_​Vincent

    emet,

    If you can so easily download codecs like WMV/WMA, MPEG2/4, and AC3, your actually breaking the law (I think) in some countries.

    That is why I believe Fluendo sales codecs: a legal solution for Linux users. There is also LinDVD and PowerDVD for watching DVD movies legally on Linux.

    I plan to buy the full set of Fluendo codecs and Mandriva 2007 Discovery. With the later not only do I get LinDVD but also Cedega, Flat Out (full game), and Kaspersky Anti-Virus.

    I think I can just transfer the RPMs to Fedora. I know it can be done because I grabbed LinDVD from a Mandriva repo and it installed fine in Fedora after minor tweaking. But if something doesnt transfer correctly, I'll just pirate it legally (since I bought it).

    Be legal for only $78 USD.  A small price to pay that also gives you better DVD playback than Xine or Mplayer libdvdcss2, legal Gstreamer codecs, Cedega, full racing game, and a commercial Anti-Virus solution!

  • User profile image
    k2t0f12d

    Sabot wrote:
    Linux on the desktop has not grabbed the imagination of Joe Public, it's missing that vital element that Mac OSX has and is at risk of loosing and Vista is competing to get.

    So what is it? Cool.

    Linux just isn't cool enough anymore, it's not enough to have a good looking GUI, it now has to perform each action with an sutle easy, simplicity and intelligence only hinting at the understated power under the bonet to give confidently but hide the complexity.

    So are computers and OS becoming like fashion items? Yes, infact when have they never not been? The only difference these days is that OS are far more ingrained into the public consciousness, Joe public street will know what Windows is, will have used it and had more than a few years experience behind him, but is fickle so isn't wedded to it (hence the rise of the Mac) but has no wish to go backwards in anyway only forwards.

    So is Linux Desktop going to catch up? Not unless it pulls something gets pulled out of the bag and like it or not this is going to take investment, either in peoples time or lots of money, Linux Desktop needs that compelling killer edge ... and to do everything else eveyone else can do, being free isn't enough! Yes seriously, people still believe in paying money for things, if something is free it's not going to be as good as something you pay for right? This is the kind of thinking Linux has worked hard onto turn around in the eyes of Joe Public.

    As for the big boys like IBM & Oracle, they aren't interested in a Linux Desktop really, they know that fight is won, there is no profit in it.

    So am I saying Linux Desktop guys pack up and go home? No not at all just be realistic about what you have and what you have to do, if you are honest about Linux and do a good job in making up the difference then you will turn things around. Good luck to you. 


    That is a very eloquent and compelling analysis.  The inherent problem with it is the predication that paints the free desktop with the paintbrush of the capitalist marketplace.  The free desktop doesn't owe Joe Public squat precisely because there is little or no financial benefit to it.  Crazed maniacs might run about heralding the doom of Microsoft because of distributions like Ubuntu, but that is unrealistic for all the reasons that you have mentioned here.

    As for "catching up", the only area I can divine that FOSS developers need concern themselves with regard to the doings of Redmond revolve around interoperability, the lack of which is a Louisville Slugger Microsoft uses to propagate their software.  Comparing my desktop to that of Vista, there is no function or eye candy that Vista has that the free desktop didn't have already.  Even since the days of DOS, Microsoft has been behind, not ahead of, other developers.  Nor has Microsoft ever carried the marketplace with a superior product, but guaranteed their survival through vender lock-in, restrictive licensing terms, and allegedly undocumented APIs.

    What the free desktop hasn't done well is offer an easy to install, fully functioning desktop environment out of the box.  If the only goal of FOSS development was to supplant Windows, then making a system that specifically targets the layman would be the way to go.  Ubuntu can try to be that distribution; however, it is only a distribution, and as such is dependent on the software of many projects that service the entire computing community.

    For the foreseeable future, I predict that things will continue much as they already have in free software.  There will be forks that go after the layman user for sure, but the heart and soul of the free desktop will still be the enthusiast who is not afraid to go all the way to the level of the source code to build themselves a better OS.

Conversation locked

This conversation has been locked by the site admins. No new comments can be made.