Coffeehouse Thread

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Microsoft takes on the FREE World

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  • User profile image
    eagle
  • User profile image
    jamie

    "That's not a bridge we've crossed," says CEO Ballmer, "and not a bridge I want to cross today on the phone with you."

    eery

    thanks for that eagle.  Not that it wasnt the most depressing and self destructive thing ms has done since disbanding the internet platform and tools division... you know.. the team that could have saved ms..

    bah  im on leave   as if...  but id LIKE to be!

  • User profile image
    k2t0f12d

    jamie wrote:
    Not that it wasnt the most depressing and self destructive thing ms has done since disbanding the internet platform and tools division... you know.. the team that could have saved ms..


    No, you are mistaken.  Deep down Ballmer is really a very nice man that would never think of trying to squeeze a dime out of anyone else's hard work with legal trickery.

  • User profile image
    jamie

    "look - what are you a commie?  its got tomatoes and oregano and noodles in it - therefore it undermines our lasagne patent - it must be lasange if it has noodles and oregano and tomatos in it!"

    cook anything you like - just pay us

    math = unpatentable - recipes = for disaster

    ___________

    = get RID of ballmer

  • User profile image
    k2t0f12d

    jamie wrote:
    "look - what are you a commie?  its got tomatoes and oregano and noodles in it - therefore it undermines our lasagne patent - it must be lasange if it has noodles and oregano and tomatos in it!"

    cook anything you like - just pay us

    math = unpatentable - recipes = for disaster

    ___________

    = get RID of ballmer


    Jamie, have you ever read about how much money these men have?  If I met someone who earned a million dollars, I'd congratulate them.  Fifty million, very well done indeed.  But explain to me how a man of any character can draw a windfall of personal fortune in the billions of dollars and retain any of their humanity whatsoever?  How can anything they do or say surprise anyone?  What can anyone possibly do or say to embarrass them more then then size of their wallets should?

  • User profile image
    jamie

    well i wouldnt go that far

    they invented software (over hardware) so they are all rich

    cool

    no prob

    but the main issue is BillG was wrong
    Letter to hobbiests was wrong

    they had a good run
    but in the end - people have a hard time paying for invisible things like software and music and movies..

    sure - i rent 4 or 5 dvds a week  - i will buy a new xtc or prefab sprout album.  i will buy windows with a new machine - all tangible in your hand items

    but in general - everything is moving back to how it was BEFORE the letter

    buy an ipod - it comes with an os - you dont buy bits

    this is whats being "undermined" and why MS has decided not to compete - but instead to prop up its old 20 year mantra - the letter - which is now wrong

    every day in denial is a day less worth of credability

    "you still an ms fanatic?" " err ya .. i try to be..."





    PS - sorry for sounding like a mad scoble Wink

  • User profile image
    jamie

    i am confused..

    call out to fierce- capitalist / democracy persons on C9

    please post why this is good  (patents / suing)

    ive thought about it.. and cant see the new nuclear family paradigm working for anything but the consumer

    i - personally - see a modest , slow revolt against the big box/non- green corp's and those companies in turn - slowly will adapt - and capitalism/democracy will continue

    what i dont see is a family brand like microsoft suing its users... continuing to advicate a 20 yr old letter...

    xbox will work. zune - once fixed will work.  these are tangible items

    suing wont work?

  • User profile image
    eagle

    This is a conversation that needs to happen.  

    The FOSS community has many factions that also need to have this conversation.

    There isn't going to be a big court room battle, this is going to be about diplomacy and negotiations.

  • User profile image
    Minh

    jamie wrote:
    i am confused..

    call out to fierce- capitalist / democracy persons on C9

    please post why this is good  (patents / suing)

    This is neither good nor bad. But it might be a way to fix the problem. I don't buy some people's idea that software can never be patented -- though we know that the big boys have been running a patent gold-rush for the past few years. I'm willing to bet that the majority won't stand up to closer scrutiny.

    jamie wrote:

    ive thought about it.. and cant see the new nuclear family paradigm working for anything but the consumer

    Well, yeah, but the new nuclear family is composed of the big boys who have patents to trade to each other.

    "What's that you say? You only have 10 piddly patents? Ha!"

    Even though the Court has made it easier to invalidate bad patents, having an approved patent is heckuvalot better than not.

    [/quote]
    i - personally - see a modest , slow revolt against the big box/non- green corp's and those companies in turn - slowly will adapt - and capitalism/democracy will continue

    jamie wrote:

    suing wont work?

    I don't know. I'm still holding out for a small, insignificant company holding microsoft patent-balls in a vice. Maybe Richard Stallman's group should be filing for patents Smiley

  • User profile image
    Royal​Schrubber

    jamie wrote:
    

    well i wouldnt go that far

    they invented software (over hardware) so they are all rich

    cool

    no prob

    but the main issue is BillG was wrong
    Letter to hobbiests was wrong

    they had a good run
    but in the end - people have a hard time paying for invisible things like software and music and movies..

    sure - i rent 4 or 5 dvds a week  - i will buy a new xtc or prefab sprout album.  i will buy windows with a new machine - all tangible in your hand items

    but in general - everything is moving back to how it was BEFORE the letter

    buy an ipod - it comes with an os - you dont buy bits

    this is whats being "undermined" and why MS has decided not to compete - but instead to prop up its old 20 year mantra - the letter - which is now wrong

    every day in denial is a day less worth of credability

    "you still an ms fanatic?" " err ya .. i try to be..."





    PS - sorry for sounding like a mad scoble



    I've just read the letter. I must say I agree with it. Smiley In my opinion everyone has the righ to sell software and it's nothing immoral about it.

    Jamie, why do you think selling software is any different than selling cars or medicines? In automobile industry enineers have to produce recipees which they latter feed into robots which in turn create us cars. The same in pharamceutical industry, they also have to first create a 'program' which will then create pills. When you go to car dealer, do you b!tch to the salesman why cars are not for free?

    Software industry is in my opinion the same as any other. The fact that might surprise you is that a lot of GPLed software and even linux kernel is written by corporations that sell software, like IBM and Novell.

  • User profile image
    TimP

    This has nothing to do with selling software. The issue is Microsoft is essentially saying, you're using a program based on an idea we had, we didn't actually write any of the code, but since it's our idea, pay us for using it unless you want to get sued.

  • User profile image
    jamie

    this topic is too big..  i dont want to get into any fights with any 9er friends

    we are a community - friends of ms

    i guess my point is - i disagree with the way MS are "competing" with community built software

    communities like c9?

  • User profile image
    anand.t

    actually microsoft is talking on the anti-microsoft world. OSS today is just limited to overthrowing windows and office. They are not worried about the closed software IBM has. :O Gonna be interesting though, but I am sure balmer is not a noob Wink Probably he is just trying to put some doubts in the minds of big companies, who will be happy to either shell out some millions as royalty or will continue to use windows. Also you cannot fully that IBM, SUN and Google will just line up and help the penguin. Its a complicated world.


    Reg. the assumption in slashdot and digg that microsoft empire is crumbling, I am sorry but it is not. They are one of the best capitalist company out there. By capitalist I mean oppurtunistic. They have no values just like you and me and ibm and sun and google. They have to show profit to their shareholders. Remember the past, they developed OS2. They will be eager to work on anything if that gives them profit. THis is exactly what IBM and Oracle are doing now.

    So the bottom line is, microsofts profit is going to fall sooner or later, but still they will be earning more than what companies like SUN can only dream of

  • User profile image
    Xaero_​Vincent

    235 patents aye?

    Yeah patents on menu bars, file systems, scroll bars, task bar, double clicking, emoticon smileys, etc.

    I already knew FOSS violated software patents. For instance when I use NTFS-3g, I realize thats it represents a patent violation right then and there because NTFS is patented file system technology.

    I dare anyone write a significant piece of software that doesnt violate at least one of the millions of software patents out there. The only thing you'll likely end up with is a console app that prints "Hello World!" (sort to speak).

    Just wait what happens when Microsoft tries suing FOSS users. It will be the start of civil war and patent retaliation by big FOSS supporters as a way to protect their vested interests.

    You likely hear about protests and raids outside Microsoft's Redmond campus and mass boycotting of their products. It can get very ugly very quickly when people who already hate you with passion are further invoked with threats.

    Im not upset nor hate Microsoft yet but that could change in the event of litigation threats to the people. I too would be threatended as both a user of FOSS solutions and Microsoft products.

    The FOSS movement could never exist if traditional patent laws were enforced upon them. It wouldn't be free anymore in any sense of the word and it would be feeding the greed of a huge entity who has a history of never providing anything but threats and taunts.

  • User profile image
    rjdohnert

    If it violates MS patents then yes they should pay.  I personally dont care about civil wars or how much the OSS community tries to demonize Microsoft.  IP is IP and until the law is changed its owned by Microsoft.  The software industry is an industry with competitors and laws and the OSS community needs to abide by those laws.  No amount of preventive language you throw in a license can violate the law.

  • User profile image
    Dr Herbie

    Shock!  Corporate executives doing what they are paid to do!

    Horror!  Microsoft Shareholders want to make money.

    Oh, the humanity!


    Herbie

  • User profile image
    Xaero_​Vincent

    rjdohnert wrote:
    If it violates MS patents then yes they should pay.  I personally dont care about civil wars or how much the OSS community tries to demonize Microsoft.  IP is IP and until the law is changed its owned by Microsoft.  The software industry is an industry with competitors and laws and the OSS community needs to abide by those laws.  No amount of preventive language you throw in a license can violate the law.


    Then the FOSS movement could never exist.

    The current software patent laws and the requirement to pay royalties are a substantial threat to the entire movement itself.

    Software patent law needs major reform if not total abolishment. I'm not strickly refering to FOSS; the system has become so out of control that software companies are only creating a liability for themselves each time they bring their product onto the market.

  • User profile image
    blowdart

    Xaero_Vincent wrote:
    
    rjdohnert wrote:If it violates MS patents then yes they should pay.  I personally dont care about civil wars or how much the OSS community tries to demonize Microsoft.  IP is IP and until the law is changed its owned by Microsoft.  The software industry is an industry with competitors and laws and the OSS community needs to abide by those laws.  No amount of preventive language you throw in a license can violate the law.


    Then the FOSS movement could never exist.

    The current software patent laws and the requirement to pay royalties are a substantial threat to the entire movement itself.

     
    Ah so it's OK to ignore laws you don't agree with?

    I can't wait to see that argued in court.

    MS are stuck between Scylla and Charybdis with this. They have an obligation to shareholders to chase patent violations; but they'll come off like bullies if they do, and may well drive a change in patent law.

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