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playogg.com - how not to promote open source

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  • User profile image
    blowdart

    Oh dear; gnu is at it again.

    This is the perfect example of how not to do it; promoting a free audio format by suggesting to users that they .... download an entirely new media player.

    iTunes users won't give up iTunes just for a codec. WMP users won't give up WMP just for a codec. And in fact there are ways to get Ogg into those players; but what do GNU do? Push their agenda further, instead of helping users do what they would want.

    (of course I blogged this)

  • User profile image
    ixdatul

    Maybe it's just me, but I can't hit your web server

  • User profile image
    blowdart

    ixdatul wrote:
    Maybe it's just me, but I can't hit your web server


    Hmm weird; I can obviously see it.

  • User profile image
    ixdatul

    Ah, belay that last one, works on my phone, must be the firewall here at work.

  • User profile image
    TommyCarlier

    I can see it, but it takes a while.

  • User profile image
    blowdart

    ixdatul wrote:
    Ah, belay that last one, works on my phone, must be the firewall here at work.


    Hah, that's amusing.

    I plugged it into the w3c validator to check.

    And discovered Windows Live Writer just doesn't obey the rules. At all. Made up image attributes, and invalid id attributes on divs. Well done Live Writer team Perplexed

  • User profile image
    Bas

    The first no-no that strikes me is the fact that the text on that page is far too wide. It only fits three quarters of the text on my 1280x800 screen. Horizontal scrolling per sentence ftl.

  • User profile image
    blowdart

    emet wrote:
    

    Free Software Foundation has an agenda!!!!

    Who would have known?

    I'm sure they keep it really super secret too, not like you kind find anything about it here.

    "Free software is a matter of freedom: people should be free to use software in all the ways that are socially useful. Software differs from material objects—such as chairs, sandwiches, and gasoline—in that it can be copied and changed much more easily. These possibilities make software as useful as it is; we believe software users should be able to make use of them."

    And people should be free to use software they choose. It looks like gnu isn't about choice at all right now.

  • User profile image
    Bas

    emet wrote:
    

    Free Software Foundation has an agenda!!!!

    Who would have known?

    I'm sure they keep it really super secret too, not like you kind find anything about it here.



    What point are you trying to make? Nobody ever said that they're secretive about their agenda.

  • User profile image
    anand.t

    wowo, who designed such a crapy website that requires infinite right scroll. And why do they care about windows xp when it is supposed to be an inferior operation system. Instead of VLC they should better give a link to ubuntu and ask everyone to install it.

  • User profile image
    ixdatul

    emet wrote:
    

    Free Software Foundation has an agenda!!!!

    Who would have known?

    I'm sure they keep it really super secret too, not like you kind find anything about it here.

    "Free software is a matter of freedom: people should be free to use software in all the ways that are socially useful. Software differs from material objects—such as chairs, sandwiches, and gasoline—in that it can be copied and changed much more easily. These possibilities make software as useful as it is; we believe software users should be able to make use of them."



    I'm just going to go out on a limb here...

    I'm a VB.NET developer, if I, infact, believed in free software and went in that direction, I would be unemployed, because who wants to pay a guy to write software that won't turn a buck? Well, I guess then I would lose my house, my car, and probably my wife, since she knows me, and realizes, for me to do something that astronomicaly stupid, I would have to be on crack, or in a cult....So then I would become a religous zealot for open source (THIS SHOULD NOT EXIST), because hell, I dedicated my life to it now, I once again live with my parents, and shake my fist at the capitolist pigs that put me here, because if everyone thought like I did, we would all live in a very magical place, where software evolution is driven by desire to improve rather that the almighty dollar.


    Oh wait....wouldn't that make me a communist? I want to live in a Utopia that can never exist. I have such high idealism I'm actually blinded to the downsides of what I'm fighting for. And I think that corporations are, in fact, evil. The worst kind of evil...

    The reason that you fight a losing battle, is simply this....there is always someone out there like me, who wants to be better than you, have more than you, and continue to improve MY quality of life. I don't donate to the Salvation Army, Red Cross, or the Make Sally Struthers Fatter in the Name of Starving Children Fund. I donate money to the Banco del Me. And ya know what, my family loves me for it, because the harder I work, and play ball with a society I can't, and don't want to change, the better their lives are because of it.

    The best part, it's not even a sacrifice, I love what I do, and I love working for a heartless corporation. Why? Because they don't let ridiculous idealism get in the way of progress, progress which gets me a raise, my wife the medical care she needs, and my twelve year old daughter the braces she needs so she won't be chastised later in life for a physical flaw, which is the way it is, period.

    So yes, you are absolutely right, there are heartless, greedy, zealot-loathing people out there, and I am proud to be one of them.

    </rant>

    Regards,
    Ix

    Side Note: I deeply appologize for jacking you're thread momentarily Blowdart, I mean no disrespect to you in any way.

  • User profile image
    mig

    Not to play devils advocate here but I don't see anything wrong with GNU giving instructions for a player that in fact does work with Ogg out of the box.  Sure you can get Ogg support into iTunes and WMP through codecs, but (and I might be wrong) those codecs might have no affiliation with the FSF and/or might not even be cross platform enough for GNU to be advertising them on their website.  Not to mention a single set of instructions is less confusing than having the user get different files for different systems.

    Now the whole agenda issue might be true, but I feel I don't see anything wrong with providing the user a choice of media player, and on a partly related note: Will iTunes even play files using third party (DShow) codecs? I know WMP will but even then I don't even know how well it does it as I use foobar2000 for all my music playing and Media Player Classic with ffdshow for my video playback.  What I use is definitely a harder configuration option than telling the user to get ffdshow, install it and get more than what they asked for if all they want is an Ogg playback solution, compared to just installing VLC that is.

  • User profile image
    blowdart

    mig wrote:
    Will iTunes even play files using third party (DShow) codecs?


    No; xiph provide a QuickTime plugin on their own site for iTunes.

    My point is that offering yet another media player as the only option to play vorbis files is disingenuous at best and shows the complete lack of connection with users that a lot of open source is guilty of.

  • User profile image
    anand.t

    emet wrote:
    
    Hah, and yet Red Cross exists, Salvation Army exists, because there is people that aren't like you in the world. And if you cared about yourself, you wouldn't be so contempt living someone elses dream.


    because there are people like bill gates donating money Cool

  • User profile image
    mig

    blowdart wrote:
    
    mig wrote:
    Will iTunes even play files using third party (DShow) codecs?


    No; xiph provide a QuickTime plugin on their own site for iTunes.

    My point is that offering yet another media player as the only option to play vorbis files is disingenuous at best and shows the complete lack of connection with users that a lot of open source is guilty of.


    Hmm, OK.  I guess I understimated the standard user, or maybe it was just hard to believe that a user would take the FSF's endorsement (since that is what it seems to me) too literally.  I would hope that anyone that is interested in playing Ogg files would look for a solution that incorporates their existing solution (be it iTunes or WMP).  However I do see your point, but then again it is FSF's choice to endorse whoever they want, be it a single project or more than one.

    I will note however that they didn't say anywhere on their site "the only player that will play ogg files is VLC" but rather "there are many players that will play ogg files, the one we like is VLC".

  • User profile image
    blowdart

    emet wrote:
    What is exactly so bad about Vlc? I know people who wouldn't touch Linux with a 10 foot poll use Vlc. It's a damn good movie/media player, and it's prob second to Firefox in popularity for an open source product. 


    Actually nothing; when I've used it it's been good. But it's unrealistic (and typical of gnu) to expect iTunes users to abandon iTunes just for a codec; and it's agenda pushing to hide the fact that Ogg have iTunes plugins, and someone else has Media Player plugins.

    If gnu were truely wanting to push ogg then they'd help people use the format in their existing players; but they'd rather push an agenda than help. And that's pathetic.

  • User profile image
    blowdart

    mig wrote:
    
    I will note however that they didn't say anywhere on their site "the only player that will play ogg files is VLC" but rather "there are many players that will play ogg files, the one we like is VLC".


    Ah no; they say

    To access streaming Ogg files you need a media player that understands the Ogg Vorbis format. Many different free software players work with Ogg.


    Note the clause "many different free software players". Now consider how gnu redefined "free" to mean what that wanted it to me; gpl code.

    Again it's simply unrealistic to push VLC onto iTunes users. If they wanted to truely push Vorbis they'd have offered more instructions for other players, or at least pointed out that it will work in iTunes and WMP and here's the links.

  • User profile image
    blowdart

    emet wrote:
    
    RMS said himself that it is better to use an inferior software if it is free software.


    Be honest; you don't see that attitude as a problem?

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