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Safari compilation trick produces Win32 apps

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  • User profile image
    Ray6

    Now this is a bit clever.

    This chap has managed to produce a Win32 app from Cocoa sources. Apparently he compiled against the DLLs that came with Safari for Windows.

    Not perfect, but sounds like it could be the start of something big.


  • User profile image
    Rossj

    Ray6 wrote:
    Now this is a bit clever.

    This chap has managed to produce a Win32 app from Cocoa sources. Apparently he compiled against the DLLs that came with Safari for Windows.

    Not perfect, but sounds like it could be the start of something big.




    Unfortunately, if isn't compiling ObjC code then he probably isn't using Cocoa.  I'd love to be proven wrong though - I'd love Cocoa (and pref XCode) on Windows.

  • User profile image
    Ray6

    Rossj wrote:
    
    Ray6 wrote:
    Now this is a bit clever.

    This chap has managed to produce a Win32 app from Cocoa sources. Apparently he compiled against the DLLs that came with Safari for Windows.

    Not perfect, but sounds like it could be the start of something big.




    Unfortunately, if isn't compiling ObjC code then he probably isn't using Cocoa.  I'd love to be proven wrong though - I'd love Cocoa (and pref XCode) on Windows.


    That's a point; he didn't say what he was using to compile the program. So unless he's using the Gnu ObjectiveC compiler, it must Carbon stuff he's building.

    Still, it does show that Apple has ported a lot of the underlying API over to Windows.

    ... and managed to produce some pretty awful looking apps ... Sad

  • User profile image
    Rossj

    Ray6 wrote:
    
    ... and managed to produce some pretty awful looking apps ...



    If it wasn't for the speed and the search highlighting it would be a total right off for me, I guess I am just lucky I didn't get the font issues.

  • User profile image
    blowdart

    Ray6 wrote:
    
    Still, it does show that Apple has ported a lot of the underlying API over to Windows.

    ... and managed to produce some pretty awful looking apps ...



    Well there's the problem (and it exists at MS as well, and in linux space), they think they do UIs better, so rather than use the underlying OS method of windowing, menu, scrolling and so on, they ported rendering as well.

  • User profile image
    Rossj

    blowdart wrote:
    
    Ray6 wrote:
    
    Still, it does show that Apple has ported a lot of the underlying API over to Windows.

    ... and managed to produce some pretty awful looking apps ...



    Well there's the problem (and it exists at MS as well, and in linux space), they think they do UIs better, so rather than use the underlying OS method of windowing, menu, scrolling and so on, they ported rendering as well.


    Having said that, if the font rendering can be fixed to use CT, anybody could check the Win32 version of Webkit out and write a conforming UI to go around it, so there is hope yet.

    Ross (not RJDohnert)

  • User profile image
    Yggdrasil

    Rossj wrote:
    Having said that, if the font rendering can be fixed to use CT, anybody could check the Win32 version of Webkit out and write a conforming UI to go around it, so there is hope yet.


    Which brings up another question, one I haven't seen mentioned in the original link.
    What's the EULA/legal limits of using the Safari libraries to build your own apps? Either using WebKit to build your own browser, or just generally using the ported Mac libraries to build Mac-like applications for Windows. How about redistributing? This is usually expressly forbidden unless specifically defined.
    Is this mentioned somewhere in the Safari EULA? Has Apple released any sort of information/permission/blind eye about this?

  • User profile image
    Rossj

    Yggdrasil wrote:
    
    Which brings up another question, one I haven't seen mentioned in the original link.
    What's the EULA/legal limits of using the Safari libraries to build your own apps?


    Webkit is mixed LGPL and BSD. No idea bout CoreGraphics etc.


  • User profile image
    Ray6

    blowdart wrote:
    
    Ray6 wrote:
    
    Still, it does show that Apple has ported a lot of the underlying API over to Windows.

    ... and managed to produce some pretty awful looking apps ...



    Well there's the problem (and it exists at MS as well, and in linux space), they think they do UIs better, so rather than use the underlying OS method of windowing, menu, scrolling and so on, they ported rendering as well.


    Then the right answer hasn't changed at all.

    Render to match the look and feel of the home operating system. Anything else is stupid. You'd think watching Java fail on the desktop would have taught them that.

  • User profile image
    YearOfThe​LinuxDesktop

    and when I was saying that Apple was porting cocoa to windows nobody believed me Sad

  • User profile image
    Cannot​Resolve​Symbol

    YearOfTheLinuxDesktop wrote:
    and when I was saying that Apple was porting cocoa to windows nobody believed me


    As far as anyone knows, Cocoa is not there.  Just Core Foundation (providing some basic system services) and Core Graphics/Quartz (providing the rendering system for graphics and text).  Also, as has already been said, Cocoa is an ObjectiveC API:  in this blog post, he's using C, so Cocoa itself would be inaccessible to him (Carbon is the C API for OSX).

    That said, I do think Apple has a working version of the current Mac OS API (all of Cocoa) in house, just like they had OSX running on Intel in house for its entire lifetime.  We saw Yellow Box for Windows back in the very early days of OSX...  I'd be suprised if it didn't make a comeback at some point.

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