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Apple: 'No 64-bit support in Carbon'

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  • User profile image
    Ray6

    I completely missed this, but picked it up from OSNews.

    Now ignoring the fact that Jobs said Carbon was a first class citizen on MacOSX, what will happen to all the apps that are written in Carbon?

    PhotoShop
    QuarkExpress
    MS Office

    Do they all stay 32 bit now? Probably not so important for Office, but I'm sure that PhotoShop could benefit from the extra boost.

    This does sound a little odd to me ....


  • User profile image
    Rossj

    Ray6 wrote:
    I completely missed this, but picked it up from OSNews.

    Now ignoring the fact that Jobs said Carbon was a first class citizen on MacOSX, what will happen to all the apps that are written in Carbon?

    PhotoShop
    QuarkExpress
    MS Office

    Do they all stay 32 bit now? Probably not so important for Office, but I'm sure that PhotoShop could benefit from the extra boost.

    This does sound a little odd to me ....




    Very odd. Regardless of what Steve says, there has been a push to stop people using Carbon (the C api for those that don't know) but they use it internally for some apps so I don't know how that will work.  I assume Core * will still be 64 bit so I don't know what the problem is unless there is some backward compat issue with porting to 64 bit.

  • User profile image
    Ray6

    Rossj wrote:
    
    Very odd. Regardless of what Steve says, there has been a push to stop people using Carbon (the C api for those that don't know) but they use it internally for some apps so I don't know how that will work.  I assume Core * will still be 64 bit so I don't know what the problem is unless there is some backward compat issue with porting to 64 bit.


    First casualty seems to be TrollTech. Note on their website says that the OSX libraries will remain 32 bit.

    What did they use to write the Finder? Last I heard it was still a Carbon application, and I don't think that they rewrote it for Leopard.

    And what about Photoshop?

  • User profile image
    Rossj

    Ray6 wrote:
    What did they use to write the Finder? Last I heard it was still a Carbon application, and I don't think that they rewrote it for Leopard.


    Yeah I heard it was Carbon too. This sounds like a deliberate attempt to kill it once and for all (which would be silly).

    Update: Yes, this is a deliberate attempt to kill Carbon. Trailing through the mailing lists shows Apple employees suggesting people attend the Carbon-Cocoa porting lab ... sigh. It's not all doom and gloom for C devs, as you can include C code in ObjC very easily (i.e. with no effort) but for products that are currently Carbon based they'll either have to move if they really need 64 bit support or they'll have to port Sad  I've no idea what transition tools have been made available, if any.

    I should point out though, that Carbon was only ever intended to help people port from OS9 to OSX and that was made fairly clear, if 7 years after that time you are still using it - and intend to still be using it 5 years from now...

  • User profile image
    Custa1200

    Is there a real "need" to move everything to 64bit?

  • User profile image
    Rossj

    Custa1200 wrote:
    Is there a real "need" to move everything to 64bit?


    No, oh course not .. not every app will need it.  But on Windows today, how many Win16 apps do you use?

  • User profile image
    Sven Groot

    Rossj wrote:
    
    Custa1200 wrote:
    Is there a real "need" to move everything to 64bit?


    No, oh course not .. not every app will need it.  But on Windows today, how many Win16 apps do you use?

    That's not a fair comparison, since at the time the jump from 16 bit to 32 bit took place, even normal apps were starting to push the limits of 16 bit addressing. With the 32 bit to 64 bit transition, that's not the case at all.

    And I use none, since I run Vista x64, which can't run 16 bit apps. Smiley

  • User profile image
    Ray6

    Rossj wrote:
    
    Yeah I heard it was Carbon too. This sounds like a deliberate attempt to kill it once and for all (which would be silly).


    Well perhaps they should lead by example.

    Rossj wrote:
    
    Update: Yes, this is a deliberate attempt to kill Carbon. Trailing through the mailing lists shows Apple employees suggesting people attend the Carbon-Cocoa porting lab ... sigh.


    In other words, a complete rewrite. I can see that being possible for stuff that doesn't have a lot of UI code, but I don't think MS Office and Photoshop fall into those categories

    Rossj wrote:
    
    I should point out though, that Carbon was only ever intended to help people port from OS9 to OSX and that was made fairly clear, if 7 years after that time you are still using it - and intend to still be using it 5 years from now...


    So does he really expect Microsoft and Adobe to rewrite everything?

    I don't think he's that dumb. But I am thinking that some time in the future, there will be no need ..




  • User profile image
    AndyC

    Cocoa is being ported to Windows and it'd be a lot more effort to do the whole of Carbon as well.

  • User profile image
    Ray6

    AndyC wrote:
    Cocoa is being ported to Windows and it'd be a lot more effort to do the whole of Carbon as well.


    We have a winna!


  • User profile image
    Ray6

    Custa1200 wrote:
    Is there a real "need" to move everything to 64bit?


    Yes. Even if it is just for marketing purposes.

    But practically speaking, the Adobe suite would certainly benefit, even if MS Office could carry on as a 32bit app.


  • User profile image
    Custa1200

    Rossj wrote:
    
    Custa1200 wrote:
    Is there a real "need" to move everything to 64bit?


    No, oh course not .. not every app will need it.  But on Windows today, how many Win16 apps do you use?


    There is a mssive difference going from 16 bit to 32 bit as apposed to 32 bit to 64 bit.

    The likes of Photoshop, Painter, Maya are probably the type app that could benefit. 99% or more of software would see no realworld difference at all.

  • User profile image
    Rossj

    Custa1200 wrote:
    
    Rossj wrote:
    
    Custa1200 wrote:
    Is there a real "need" to move everything to 64bit?


    No, oh course not .. not every app will need it.  But on Windows today, how many Win16 apps do you use?


    There is a mssive difference going from 16 bit to 32 bit as apposed to 32 bit to 64 bit.


    Best I could do at short notice, don't take me too literally.

  • User profile image
    littleguru

    But isn't the finder rewritten in Leopard?

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