Coffeehouse Thread

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ASP, PHP, MySQL

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  • User profile image
    the-​laughing-man

    So I just finished college for the Summer and after 24hrs without Jack Daniels and friends I am bored out of my mind.

    I'm trying to work on a few ideas for web sites and I'm gonna have to learn some new tricks to do it, I can do XHMTL/CSS with no problems.

    I started reading up on PHP vs ASP for an assignment at college the other week and I'm swaying more towards PHP at the moment. I have a webhost and but I'm wondering if there's any way I can make a site on my machine first so I can test it quicker than uploading and editing all the time?

    Are there any sites/books/anything you can recommend in terms of learning this kind of stuff for a total newbie?

  • User profile image
    ewschone

    There are a truckload of php / mysql tutorials on the web. Just do some searching and I am sure you'll find some that fit your level of knowledge at the moment.

    As far as testing things out before you upload things to your site, you can run a webserver and php / mysql locally on your own pc and see if things work the way you want before uploading. Only thing you probably need to change after uploading is the connect string to the mysql database. Thats why those are usually kept in a seperate config file.

    Hope this helps Wink.

  • User profile image
    the-​laughing-man

    damn good start! I've been looking at the w3schools stuff at the moment but as long as I can work from my machine I should be able to rip some holes in the rest of it!

    Any reason I should move towards ASP or PHP?

  • User profile image
    W3bbo

    the-laughing-man wrote:
    Any reason I should move towards ASP or PHP?


    ASP is dead, long dead and useless.

    PHP does practically everything ASP3 did (except Application state), and then some. But it's quirky manner, inconsistent syntax, programming irregularities, and procedural approach make it excellent for beginners, but a nightmare for pros.

    ASP.NET is the "high end" choice, it scales well, provides the best overall bang-per-buck, with performance second only to ISAPI.

    Some say PHP is best for smaller websites, ASP.NET for proper "web applications" and larger-scale applications, and anything "enterprise-y". But really, ASP.NET can do it all...and runs under Mono too.

    But if you choose to use PHP, you'll need a good IDE. I recommend VS.php.

  • User profile image
    littleguru

    Go with ASP.NET, you won't regret it.

  • User profile image
    the-​laughing-man

    Excellent stuff, I'll get reading

    thanks for the input!

  • User profile image
    ewschone

    the-laughing-man wrote:
    
    Any reason I should move towards ASP or PHP?


    You can pretty much forget about asp, unless you'd like to maintain some old legacy website in the future Wink. I really like php, php5 has some nice OO features, yet you can also just hack away old style if you want to do something quick and dirty.

    On the other hand there is asp.net, might be a bit tougher to learn. Asp.net has a lot of nice stuff to download. Free development tools, sql server express and a bunch of tutorial videos, if you go this route you'll also learn a bit of vb.net / c# and that cant be a bad thing.

    I would suggest to check out both, cant hurt to have a bit of knowledge of both platforms. And thats probably the best way to find out what you like best.

  • User profile image
    W3bbo

    ewschone wrote:
    I would suggest to check out both, cant hurt to have a bit of knowledge of both platforms. And thats probably the best way to find out what you like best.


    Agreed, however there's a danger in learning both at the same time if you're a beginner.

    PHP and ASP.NET operate on totally different paradigms and modus operandia, yet they both look and feel the same in source view.

    If you do both, you'll start asking what the equivalent of PHP's "echo" is in ASP.NET, well to be honest, there isn't one (Response.Write doesn't count). Since ASP.NET pages are generated by getting Control classes to render themselves to an output stream, you should never need to touch the output stream yourself unless you're developing Controls.

    Oh, and the concept of "included files" in ASP.NET is dead too.

    So basically, learn both, by all means, it opens doors, but don't use PHP's techniques in ASP.NET and vice-versa.

  • User profile image
    Johnny​Awesome

    The reason why everyone and their mom is a PHP dev is generally one of two reasons:

    1.) Its free!
     
    +++I take much of the microsoft technologies I work with for granted from time to time. Truth is, there is an entry cost to learn and become really functional in many Microsoft technologies (though that has gotten better with express versions of SQL Server and VS).

    OR

    2.) I mean this with little to no offense, but they're not really "programmers".

    +++And what I mean by that is; its the same reason why very few VBScript/VB6 jockeys were not either. When the
    world changed over to .NET a lot of people were lost in the mix. Some would argue for the better. Learning a truly compileable OOP language will be a better for you in the long run professionally and offer a greater understanding of developing complex systems. Then if you wanted to program in a procedural runtime-script based language, it will be easier to do, but you might not want to still.


    This is assuming that you are just sticking with your ASP vs PHP concept. Ruby is OOP and is script based. But, pesonally, I think learning C# and ASP.NET will be much more worth your while in the long run.





  • User profile image
    ewschone

    W3bbo wrote:
    
    ewschone wrote:
    I would suggest to check out both, cant hurt to have a bit of knowledge of both platforms. And thats probably the best way to find out what you like best.


    Agreed, however there's a danger in learning both at the same time if you're a beginner.

    PHP and ASP.NET operate on totally different paradigms and modus operandia, yet they both look and feel the same in source view.



    Yes I agree, it might be confusing to do both things at the same time. Probably better to stick to one platform at first. Then reset your brain and check out the other one Wink.

  • User profile image
    Royal​Schrubber

    JohnnyAwesome wrote:

    +++And what I mean by that is; its the same reason why very few VBScript/VB6 jockeys were not either. When the
    world changed over to .NET a lot of people were lost in the mix. Some would argue for the better. Learning a truly compileable OOP language will be a better for you in the long run professionally and offer a greater understanding of developing complex systems. Then if you wanted to program in a procedural runtime-script based language, it will be easier to do, but you might not want to still.


    And you have completely no idea about what VB6 is. Noob.

    For your information VB6 *is* OOP and it is also compilable. In fact executables produced by vb6 are many times as fast as .net executables and in some cases comparable to c++.
    VB6 is statically and dynamically typed (it's hybrid) and produces true, noninterpeted machine code.

  • User profile image
    W3bbo

    RoyalSchrubber wrote:
    And you have completely no idea about what VB6 is. Noob.

    For your information VB6 *is* OOP and it is also compilable. In fact executables produced by vb6 are many times as fast as .net executables and in some cases comparable to c++.
    VB6 is statically and dynamically typed (it's hybrid) and produces true, noninterpeted machine code.


    VB6 isn't OOP. VB6 can consume objects, but not create true OOP classes. You're limited to single classes with no inheritance but with Interface support.


  • User profile image
    Royal​Schrubber

    Hmmm, I've forgotten a lot about VB6. Let's just say its OOP features are limited, though it has some. It's not like that there are only functions..

    It irritates me when people compare vb with scripting languages. Vbscript to vb is like javascript to java. Back in the old days it was one of the few type safe languages that were compiled and ran reasonably fast.

  • User profile image
    W3bbo

    RoyalSchrubber wrote:
    It irritates me when people compare vb with scripting languages. Vbscript to vb is like javascript to java. Back in the old days it was one of the few type safe languages that were compiled and ran reasonably fast.


    Here's a question:

    Why didn't Microsoft ever make a C-style syntax language for the VB runtime? "Visual C Basic"? "Visual Casic"?

    One of the things that gets to me, is people who think languages are different just because what you type in the IDE is totally different. These people know nothing about compiler and language design; why, it's high time someone developed LOGO.NET just to make a point.

  • User profile image
    the-​laughing-man

    Wow you turn your back for two minutes and there's another argument! God bless you Niners!

    I still have the beta of Expressions Web sitting someone on this PC, any programs you guys would recommend?

    I'm certainly gonna go the ASP.NET route from what you guys are saying even if it's just for a minor grounding in other aspects

  • User profile image
    Royal​Schrubber

    W3bbo wrote:
    
    RoyalSchrubber wrote:
    It irritates me when people compare vb with scripting languages. Vbscript to vb is like javascript to java. Back in the old days it was one of the few type safe languages that were compiled and ran reasonably fast.


    Here's a question:

    Why didn't Microsoft ever make a C-style syntax language for the VB runtime? "Visual C Basic"? "Visual Casic"?


    Well, that's one of mysteries to be left for next generations. VB6 library was nice, I much more like it than most from java. Java is surely more powerful but VB6 was more straightforward.

    It's funny coincidence - today I've been looking in .net library for thingy that would allow me to paint graphics by inverting background. I haven't found it and it looks like I'll have to mess around with bitmap arrays. In old VB you could do that xor magic with one property change. I miss VB Smiley

  • User profile image
    Royal​Schrubber

    the-laughing-man wrote:
    Wow you turn your back for two minutes and there's another argument! God bless you Niners!

    I still have the beta of Expressions Web sitting someone on this PC, any programs you guys would recommend?

    I'm certainly gonna go the ASP.NET route from what you guys are saying even if it's just for a minor grounding in other aspects


    I'll check out Expression Web someday, though something tells me it isn't for free. Smiley Anyway alternatives are MS 'Visual Web Developer Express Edition' (or the real deal in visual studio). It's free and useful.

    (Very) good html/css editor is also in Adobe Dreamweaver, however I don't know how would asp.net coding look like in it.

    Otherwise forget anything opensource, I've been lately looking around for decent oss wysiwyg editor and I haven't found one. Currently I am on Visual Studio web editor Tongue Out

  • User profile image
    raymond

    littleguru wrote:
    Go with ASP.NET, you won't regret it.


    ASP.NET all the way.

    Cool

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