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WTF! .... 'The Indians are killing IT'

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  • User profile image
    Ray6

    ... this one somehow managed to wind up on DZone, which sort of lowered the tone ....

    This fella seems to think that folk from India are responsible for all the ills in the IT world, when all they are doing is filling a demand for cheap IT skills.

    I wouldn't go as far as branding him a racist, but I reckon he's just bitter about something, and it has little to do with his perception of their competence levels.

    Any country will produce good IT people and bad IT people; India is no different than Britain or the States.




  • User profile image
    W3bbo

    The .com boom led to a massive rise in the number of IT and programming contractors.

    No offense to the contractors, but most of the work they do just requires knowledge of programming and some past experience, there really isn't much CS involved. I really don't consider software eng. contracting an academically "challenging" career.

    And this is where India creeps in.

    This isn't a racism issue, it's about people getting pissed off that in this free-market economy, people are doing their jobs for less (but not necessarily always as competently[1]).

    [1]Let's not deny sites like GetAFreelancer and Guru.com are populated with people who turn a $5000 web-application quote down to $500 with responses like "yessir i make do asp.net java php webapplications in html for multinational corporation", but I really can't judge them based on that since I've never seen a finished job from GAF or Guru.

    The contractors who are finding themselves displaced had better land themselves some permie jobs, since there's better job security, or do something international outsourcing can't do: "the local touch". Pitch yourself out to local businesses who need IT solutions from local developers, for example.

  • User profile image
    NuTcAsE

    W3bbo wrote:
    The .com boom led to a massive rise in the number of IT and programming contractors.

    No offense to the contractors, but most of the work they do just requires knowledge of programming and some past experience, there really isn't much CS involved. I really don't consider software eng. contracting an academically "challenging" career.


    That can be said for most non-contracting jobs too. Unless you are looking at R&D or high profile application development, most line of business applications aren't that "academically challenging".

  • User profile image
    littleguru

    I'm also against the price dumping. Kills quality.

  • User profile image
    anand.t

    The problem is in India you can get into an IT job even with no computer experience. And they just give you some basic training and boom you are a programmer. But the problem is with the companies hiring them

  • User profile image
    Minh

    The author claims to be an Indian.

    And I agree that the fault lies with Western companies setting up poorly managed telecomuting employess (how I see it) because of the short-term pay-off in cost reduction.

  • User profile image
    W3bbo

    anand.t wrote:
    

    The problem is in India you can get into an IT job even with no computer experience. And they just give you some basic training and boom you are a programmer. But the problem is with the companies hiring them



    You're making quite a claim, care to back it up?

    NL;NC Smiley

  • User profile image
    anand.t

    W3bbo wrote:
    
    anand.t wrote:
    

    The problem is in India you can get into an IT job even with no computer experience. And they just give you some basic training and boom you are a programmer. But the problem is with the companies hiring them



    You're making quite a claim, care to back it up?

    NL;NC


    Ya because I am an Indian and many of my friends with civil/mech/industrial background have entered the IT field. The hiring process goes like this. They have an aptitude test with logical, mathematical and verbal questions. And those who clear that 99% of the time end up in job. For small companies even that is not needed. Just know the basic interview questions (like oops etc) and they are in.

    Once in they train them on some language for a 2 week period. They basically teach them what is needed for the job that is it. After 2 weeks they are IT pros.

  • User profile image
    Soviut

    " 'day took our jarbs!"   -- South Park

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSb1Orv_shE

  • User profile image
    W3bbo

    anand.t wrote:
    After 2 weeks they are IT pros.


    In name only?

  • User profile image
    W3bbo

    Soviut wrote:
    " 'day took our jarbs!"   -- South Park

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSb1Orv_shE



    I find it ironic that free-market champions (often the right-wing) are also a conduit for xenophobia thinly vieled as concerns over "they took our jobs".

    Assuming that South Park clip was accurate about O'Rielly, how can he support both free-markets and job-protectionism?

  • User profile image
    blowdart

    Ray6 wrote:
    

    Any country will produce good IT people and bad IT people; India is no different than Britain or the States.



    Outsourcing is problematic though. I've worked with both Indian and Eastern European outsourcing companies.

    The Indian company I was brought in to fix their build and processes. Every fix I did during the day and comitted was rolled back over night by someone who didn't understand it, despite me emailing their team to explain why the changes were made.

    This went on for 4 weeks, and the outsourcing company rep in the UK then attempted to tell the customer it was all my fault. Luckily he didn't realise I knew the customer.

    Yes there are good Indian people are there, we just made a job offer to one guy I interviewed Tuesday who impressed the socks off me. But I reject way more indian CVs that I do anyone elses. Part of my review process is to look at the summary, you know the thing, I've known C# for 5 years. Then I look at the projects and what they say they've used on the projects. And I add the dates up. And more often than not they don't match. By a large amount.

    The Eastern Europe project was also a mess, delivered late, underspecced etc. But there was one key difference; the Eastern Europeans (and I've just hired one of them as well) admitted the mistakes that they made.

    I'm not saying the people at this end are blameless either, they most certainly weren't, but my feeling is that a lot of the time India produces code monkeys. People who just code. Who cut and paste. Who blindly follow instructions given to them with no thought about how it comes together.

    Maybe it's a cultural thing, maybe it's because the UK is closer to eastern Europe that we understand each other better; I don't know, but I've never experienced an outsourcing project that has worked and delivered. It's just the near shoring ones are closer to working that the ones farmed further away.

  • User profile image
    dahat

    W3bbo wrote:
    Assuming that South Park clip was accurate about O'Rielly, how can he support both free-markets and job-protectionism?


    The only thing accurate about that clip with regards to O'Reilly was the fact that he more often than not brings on people from both sides of a controversial issue... even if he himself sides with one of them.

    Want me to record and encode a few more episodes for you so that your view of such thing is not limited solely to YouTube clips?

  • User profile image
    ScanIAm

    dahat wrote:
    
    W3bbo wrote:
    Assuming that South Park clip was accurate about O'Rielly, how can he support both free-markets and job-protectionism?


    The only thing accurate about that clip with regards to O'Reilly was the fact that he more often than not brings on people from both sides of a controversial issue... even if he himself sides with one of them.



    So does Jerry Springer.

  • User profile image
    W3bbo

    ScanIAm wrote:
    
    dahat wrote:
    
    W3bbo wrote:
    Assuming that South Park clip was accurate about O'Rielly, how can he support both free-markets and job-protectionism?


    The only thing accurate about that clip with regards to O'Reilly was the fact that he more often than not brings on people from both sides of a controversial issue... even if he himself sides with one of them.



    So does Jerry Springer.



    Dahat's forum post lead to a 2 hour, 669 line MSN Messenger conversation about the merits of libertarianism vs. socialism; much enlightening (but my stance remains unchanged, if more informed and defensible). It only ended because I needed sleep (at 0106h UTC+1).

    Things could have gotten ugly if I didn't remember that you cannot change people's opinions on the Internet. Everyone and anyone engaging in any political, philosophical, or social debate should remember this.

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