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Engadget: How would you change Vista?

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  • User profile image
    jamie

    http://www.engadget.com/2007/08/19/how-would-you-change-windows-vista/


    Big deal..another Vista is questionable article.  This one specifically mentions (in article) the obvious - remove wga? lose drm? one version? bla bla

    *if you can sence an air of futility in my tone - i guess its inevitable...

    this "article" ...that came out today...  is just so C9 2 YEARS AGO

    we've all said this ... we've takled, complained, laughed, joked and made cartoons and movies about it

    and this is the article that comes out today.

    Ive always said - ill never post a "im leaving" post..  (and i wont) but man it gets so hard sometimes.  Can you imagine all the input from us over last 3-almost 4 years? ( * "bah - c9 is just the same regular 100 or so posters")   Yeah ..maybe it is.  But i guess you want us all to give up!

    If youre looking for a point to this thread... i dont have one. Obviously.

    edit * im actually not in a bad mood either Smiley  .. just...so.....frustrated


    ..where's that all in one Live download... gasp...gasp...must...have...good...press...soooooon...

  • User profile image
    jamie

    - i would put in a blue business/lite theme asap (see office)

    - i would make c9 user feedback results measurable ( digg style voting - per thread) = tag rating - linked to wiki style list page

    - i would get rid of EVERY domain name - but microsoft.com - of which c9 is half the screen

    - i would make MS .com have 2 choices - Enterprise/Business customers - Click here and then  Everyone Else = site like apple

    - Zune 2 - i would call Xune. all Surface.

    *im trying to think of new ideas.. as engadget seems incapable of looking through old ones..



  • User profile image
    W3bbo

    Chinmay007 wrote:
    Microsoft needs like an internal eXperimental Computing Facility or Skunkworks full of a bunch of psychotic computer nerds and freedom to whatever they want with expensive equipment.


    That's MSR.

  • User profile image
    jamie

    they had one with adam bosworth=.Net was born

    i always had hope for 3 degrees skunkworks - if only for branding / freedom reasons

  • User profile image
    PaoloM

    Chinmay007 wrote:
    Microsoft needs like an internal eXperimental Computing Facility or Skunkworks full of a bunch of psychotic computer nerds and freedom to whatever they want with expensive equipment.

    What exactly do you think they're doing in all the MSR centers and in the Live Labs?

  • User profile image
    jamie

    W3bbo wrote:
    
    Chinmay007 wrote:
    Microsoft needs like an internal eXperimental Computing Facility or Skunkworks full of a bunch of psychotic computer nerds and freedom to whatever they want with expensive equipment.


    That's MSR.


    dare i say - no its not... the cool stuff at ms comes out of funded, individual inspired projects Smiley

    *or at least in every book ive read it did

  • User profile image
    PaoloM

    And jamie, yes, let's all ride the white horse and get rid of that nasty DRM!

    Oh... you wanted to watch that DVD? Sorry, no can do.

  • User profile image
    W3bbo

    PaoloM wrote:
    
    Chinmay007 wrote:
    Microsoft needs like an internal eXperimental Computing Facility or Skunkworks full of a bunch of psychotic computer nerds and freedom to whatever they want with expensive equipment.

    What exactly do you think you're doing in all the MSR centers and in the Live Labs?


    At MSR: cool stuff that never makes it into an actual product (unless it's a random project MSR's been working on that marketing suddenly decided to capitalise upon, example: MS Surface, then disappears into obscurity)

    At Live Labs: new ways to bombard their users with even more adverts and provide information overload with cluttered user-interfaces and contrived product schemes. But every once in a while they take the latest offerings from the Exchange team, wrap it up in a turquise and white banner then shove it on the Internet

  • User profile image
    PaoloM

    Sure, whatever.

    For once I hoped to have a reasonable thread with jamie and w3bbo involved. Alas it appears that this is not the case. Again.

  • User profile image
    jamie

    PaoloM wrote:
    And jamie, yes, let's all ride the white horse and get rid of that nasty DRM!

    Oh... you wanted to watch that DVD? Sorry, no can do.


    Then no can do.  Why are YOU making up my mind for me?  Ill take it back and get a credit. I wont watch it.  I am thinking of paying extra to go with Bullfrog.ca Power (wind and solar) than using toronto hydro.

    Perhaps that makes no sence to you..  so i would never dream of imposing it on you.

    but you dont understand anything i say anyway ... well thats good. neither do i.
    Tongue Out

  • User profile image
    W3bbo

    Chinmay007 wrote:
    Overall I don't find much of Microsoft to be doing very innovative and interesting. C# is alright, but I don't think it's a nirvana of programming, and I still think it's not much of an improvement over Java.


    Uhm... C# features many improvements over Java. Like namespaces, enums, and a much bigger standard BCL. And nifty GUI tookits like WPF and WinForms.

    Chinmay007 wrote:
    Speech recongnition is still not so good. Maybe it got better in the last ten years, I can't really tell.


    Try switching from your 1997 release of Dragon Naturally Speaking Wink

    Chinmay007 wrote:
    NTFS is not that interesting. Check out filesystems like ZFS, Reiser4, ext4, etc.


    Do your homework. There really isn't much NTFS doesn't do. The wikipedia "feature comparison chart" shows NTFS wins out most of the time except for strawman reasons like "crossplatform support" (although it would be nice if Microsoft would release the specs to NTFS).

    Chinmay007 wrote:
    Vista reminds me too much of OS X. Coolest thing from MS so far was Surface, imo. It would be even cooler if they figured out how to sell em for the middle class people like me.


    Microsoft isn't going to "figure out". The "middle class people" (as you so eloquently put it) isn't the market. If you want a "social computer" use Media Center hooked up to a large TV. Surface is meant for overfunded Starbucks coffeeshops and expensive urban bars where people with $100 haircuts drink Martini.

  • User profile image
    jamie

    "That's why Vista put in a DRM service. It allows you to be agnostic as to whether to use DRM or not. You can use it, or you can choose not to."

    ya and i dont run it yet.  you no...me.. someone who has promoted windows for ever...   not running it - on any of my 5 machines.

    whatever

  • User profile image
    Royal​Schrubber

    Chinmay007 wrote:
    
    C# = inspired by Java
    Speech Recognition = worked on before Microsoft existed
    managed code = see above
    NTFS = meh, old technology now


    Is there something wrong with taking right aspects of some language. Did a guy behind Ruby really 'invent' - or did he basically go opposite direction for the sake of it and make some  ungodly slow language?
    Linux is also inspired by previous designs - but we don't take credit from Linus, do we?

    lol NTFS is so ancient that linux folks still aren't sure if they understand it correctly. Wink


  • User profile image
    Royal​Schrubber

    Chinmay007 wrote:
    
    RoyalSchrubber wrote:
    
    Chinmay007 wrote:
    
    C# = inspired by Java
    Speech Recognition = worked on before Microsoft existed
    managed code = see above
    NTFS = meh, old technology now


    Is there something wrong with taking right aspects of some language. Did a guy behind Ruby really 'invent' - or did he basically go opposite direction for the sake it and make some  ungodly slow language?
    Linux is also inspired by previous designs - but we don't take credit from Linus, do we?

    lol NTFS is so ancient that linux folks still aren't sure if they understand it correctly.




    The anti-Linux/anti-Apple zealotry of the people here is so idiotic, that if you even dare mention that you use or used anything non-Windows here you are instantly not "one of us" anymore. Really, I use Linux. I use Windows too. Even on the same machine! Get over it already.


    Hurts eh? See, I used exactly same argument as you did for C#, but it looks so bad on Linux, eh?
    We are being windows fanbois, eh? It was you who created it. You basically said (or better - implied) that 'C# is nothing significantly more than Java' - sorry but be more precise next time.

  • User profile image
    Michael Griffiths

    A few points:

    1) DRM is not inherently evil. Enabling DRM in Vista does two things: Angel allows copyright holders to experiment with alternative business models (subscription), and (b) subjects the concept of DRM - as opposed to a shoddy implementation by Sony based on a rootkit - to consumers.

    Please note that the marketplace is moving away from opressive DRM; see EMI charging more for DRM-free songs. This is interesting because it allows the market to place a value on DRM: as the market expands, demands will change and the increased flexibility (amount of choice) should drive DRM to a place where both consumers and producers are happy. Most of them, anyway; I don't think Torrenters will ever be happy with DRM.

    Also, it would be a shame to dismiss DRM out of hand as purely damaging to consumers. Personally, I benefit from DRM with subscription music. Over time, as rights get hammered out, you'll see creative offerings utilizing DRM in different ways.

    2) While most of what Microsoft has been doing is "boring," it's fairly important to realize why. As a large company with an entrenched product and an almost-guaranteed source of income, Microsoft has a disincentive to do "creative" things. Creative things have risk, because creative things are new and untested. And, when you're building something for 600 million people, new and untested isn't a good idea.

    Certainly, Microsoft could - and should - take more risks in the consumer space. The beautiful thing about increased competition (with Apple, Linux, and Google), is that the better they do, the more Microsoft will scramble. And Microsoft has traditionally been very good at scrambling. With Apple grabbing more and more of the college crowd, Linux available on Dell PCs (that must burn), and Google replacing Microsoft Exchange in colleges (one example), Microsoft is begining to have a helluva headache.

    The past five years have been slow, stable, and boring. In part this is because of the Dot Com boom and the aversion to risk. The humorous thing, of course, is that as Microsoft stumbled - new CEO, delayed Vista, etc - the market ignored them. Linux wasn't mature enough, Apple was recovering from their own problems, and Silicon Valley startups were having a hard time getting funding. Had Microsoft made those same mistakes now, they would have experienced much more damage. Of course, Apple and Linux are well positioned to take advantage of Vista stumbling a bit - they have another 6-12 months before Vista gets "better."

    All of which points to a very interesting time over the next few years. We have new leadership - Sinofsky, Ozzie, etc - who apparently (1) understand the mistakes made, (2) are very aware of the competition, and (3) aren't making the same mistakes. Or so we are led to believe.

    Microsoft will be more difficult to read, certainly. Decreased transparency can only help Microsoft at this point - it's rather sad that everything Microsoft does, announces, etc is decried and condemned. Shutting up should (1) reduce the volume of anti-Microsoft news, and (2) allow Microsoft to keep some of their movies quiet. It wouldn't be exceptionally healthy to give away all their plans for Windows now: Apple and Linux can steal their thunder, and having those features debated over and over - before they're implemented - means that when Windows actually arrives, reviewers feel cheated. Irrational, but looks to be true.

    I certainly hope Microsoft rises to meet the challenge: so far, it's been almost painful to watch. Windows Live isn't a joke, per se, but Live Search constantly seems around a year behind Google, Live.com is terribly out of date (though screenshots of Wave 2 looks decent - if only barely. Nothing compelling compared to, say, the My Yahoo! beta), Hotmail is actually pretty decent (even with the lack of a decent calender) but no one talks about it, and now there's a wave of articles about people switching back to XP. and so on.

    We'll see. In any event, it should be fairly tumultous.

  • User profile image
    Royal​Schrubber

    Chinmay007 wrote:
    Notice that I did not mention Linux even once in this thread before you had some tout to dismiss me a "Linux folk". I'm tired of this cult attitude, that if you mention that use Linux or Apple products without degrading or criticizing it in some way you are some kind of subhuman on Channel 9. Cut it out with the zealotry. Computer code is just a bunch of 0s and 1s, not a religion.


    Oh, you're angry bacause of my 'linux folks'. Fell free to put a sticker over your screen where 'folks' is and write on it something more appropriate like 'linux users' or 'linux developers'. I did not want to use derogatory term though, sorry if you percept it like this.

  • User profile image
    Royal​Schrubber

    Chinmay007 wrote:
    Microsoft zealots are arrogent and believe Microsoft products are perfect and the competition to be garbage. No matter what. They are completely blind to anything negative about Microsoft. They feel like they need to "defend" Microsoft from criticism at every turn. Microsoft should be ignoring these people. These people will drive Microsoft into the ground.

    Instead they should be listening to people like jamie and w3bbo. Microsoft zealots think people like Jamie and W3bbo are ignorent or confused. But they fail to realise that the criticisms aren't because they hate Microsoft, they want to improve it. I've seen people here fruitlessly trying to reach Microsoft, but getting dismissed repeatedly over and over by all the MS zealots and even some MS employees who live in some kind of zealotry induced dreamworld. It's sad and pathetic. This is not what Channel 9 should be.


    Strangely I haven't noticed that.

    PS: Take yourself as an example of zealous arrogance - you dismissed whole .net project as copy of java. Hypocracy again?

  • User profile image
    YearOfThe​LinuxDesktop

    the only thing MS should do is to start releasing non-security hotfixes and updated drivers (marked as important updates) to fix widespread performance and reliability problems instead of waiting 6 more months for the SP1. also allowing creation of shortcuts from control panel pages (for example the network connections page that on Vista takes a lot of steps to reach) couldn't hurt.

    just a few hours ago I found out 3 bugs on vista (for those that say that problems on vista never occurr):
    - CMD.EXE's autocomplete of folder names starting with [ is buggy: if I want to open a folder name [TEST] and type [ and press tab it's completed with ["[TEST]"
    - Explorer doesn't delete files/folders whose name is too long, even if I push SHIFT to do a complete deletion
    - same problem with long files/folders for CMD.EXE

    I was keeping track of other explorer bugs too but there were so many that an integer overflow occurred in my brain [C]

    P.S. I forgot the #1 thing MS should change in Vista:
    ALLOW CLEAN INSTALLS WITH UPGRADE VERSIONS!

    I'm sick of those buggy upgrades that take dozens hours to complete!
    Limiting clean installs to retail versions only doesn't help against piracy: people that want to pirate Vista install Ultimate and use the hundred cracks available to activate it.
    Have you heard me MS? REMOVE THAT STUPID RESTRICTION or this font could get even BIGGER!!!!!!!

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