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Why the Microsoft/PC hate talk is justified

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  • User profile image
    intelman

    I have to express my feelings about the Microsoft/PC environment. Recent experiences have stressed me out to no end. Computers and electronics are a hobby of mine, as it is with many other people. I have owned many Microsoft products, Xbox, Xbox 360, Microsoft Wireless Router MN-700, Zune, Windows 3.1-Vista, with NT briefly and x64 XP, Office 97-2007, various mice and keyboards…etc. There is much talk and poking fun at Microsoft for buggy or unsecure products, while I think that some of it is unnecessary and just wrong, I think there is more truth to it than I have realized.

    Microsoft does have a reputation for buggy products, not just little bugs, but ones that really are show stoppers…this includes both their hardware and software. My Microsoft Wireless Router, the MN-700, frequently had to be rebooted, it would just freeze up. If you google that model, you will find there are many similar experiences. That product had a short life, and was discontinued, I suppose because it was a failed attempt, just way too buggy. I had a Microsoft Wireless laser mouse 6000 which kept bugging me about a low signal, even though the receiver was right next to the mouse itself, and there was no radio interference. Turns out, I was not alone link.

    Oh and my Xbox 360, it got the three rings of death, that took about 4 weeks to get another console, and I’m fairly certain the Xbox 360 is responsible for scratching my Gears of War Disk, which is now unusable. You know what else, it isn’t just me. Link

    Oh and my Zune, it has no official support for x64, as is the same with many other Microsoft products (OneCare, Windows Home Server Client, Windows Live Suite + Windows Live Folder Gallery ... I'm sure eventually all things will be resolved)

    64bit support is annoying.

    64bit support should be mandatory. I don't get why Microsoft wouldn't support their own platform. Too often does Microsoft fail to deliver for x64 (OneCare, Windows Home Server Client, Zune Software as mentioned above). I just want things to work...

    It isn’t just Microsoft, it is also their partners that make the whole PC expierence horrible. I just bought a Dell Inspiron 1520 which I like, but I’ve had quite a bit of issues with. I needed my LCD replaced, so I did an online chat with Dell and they overnighted an LCD to their contracted service technicians so they could replace it for me. Well they replaced it, and the scratched the palm rest, bent the hinge cover, and the bezel was loose. So I call to get this fixed, and I was on hold for no less than 20 minuets, and then had a two hour discussion. I sent pictures of the damage and they said they would overnight the parts. Well the tech replaced the bezel, and actually left that unsnapped and loose again, in addition to that Dell didn’t send a replacement palm rest, instead they sent some random plastic piece, so the tech had to overnight the proper part. Well they finally replaced the palm rest yesterday, but now the power button is stuck. Now I have to get that fixed…I’m about to blow up. Communicating with Dell is a hassle; the online chat has long waits or is "no longer accepting queues", their hold time for their phone support is 10 minutes +, and even if you get through you are transferred no less than four times to someone else because the department they transfer you to actually doesn’t handle the issue…oh and there are hold times in-between there as well. I still don’t have this issue resolved, does anyone have a contact number for Dell that doesn’t require me to wait and listen to music for 15 minuets, because you know that’d be cool.

    That coupled with Microsoft's issues is driving me insane. I just want things to work, that is all. Is that too much to ask for?

    In the future I think I am going to explore a PC/Microsoft alternative, my hobby is no longer fun, it is painful. If I didn't have to waste a whole day talking to Dell, I would try to return my Inspiron 1520 and get a comprable Macbook Pro, the tight integration of hardware / software would solve my PC issues, plus many people have been successful on that platform. The best that can happen now is that my Laptop is fully functional before school starts back up, but at this rate, I am doubting it.

    This whole expirence actually makes me want to have a brain aneurysm. It is really stressful when something you love becomes so problematic.

    Hopefully someone from Microsoft will take this seriously. Someone there needs to turn this Microsoft/PC image around, and they need to do it fast. Fixing this over a five year period isn't enough, things have to start changing soon, within a year. I help many friends with their PCs, because frankly I'm good at it, and I'm not the only one who is frustrated with this whole situation. I want to see things improve, I want change, I as a consumer demand it.

    Note: I am using x64 because I have 4GB of ram (http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/000811.html) I’m an engineering student at OSU, and computer enthusiast who can make use of that ram.

  • User profile image
    Dharma Punk

    1) Have you tried running the Zune software in a 32-bit Windows virtual machine?

    2) There's no way this thread can get out of hand...

  • User profile image
    littleguru

    I think that bugs are common problem. If I look at Microsoft products there are lot in there: but Microsoft got better over time. It looks to me (let's move Vista aside) that Microsoft got better at hunting down bugs... but there's still A LOT of room to get even better.

    If I look at Linux (the distros I had on my PC: RedHat, Suse, Ubuntu and what we have at our university computers: RedHat) it is also buggy. It might not be the kernel (which isn't also in Windows all the time, is it) but can be any other component such as Konqueror on KDE. I can't tell you how often I got that nice crash dialog with the crash dump inside. It's also annoying.

    As for hardware: I have exactly the same mouse, but it is with a cable. And I really love that mouse. After having had such a bad experience with my old Logitech mice, Stark designer mouse and my old Microsoft mouse (I threw that one out of the window) I'm so happy to have that mouse.

    Xbox is a story per se: as said I never had the issues, but they are existing (and common for some people). I think there is just a fault in the design and that's what is causing these problems. You can't fix that via an update - that's a problem! Probably they needed to have a low price for the console and thought what they could remove and removed something that was necessary. Perhaps only necessary if the box isn't getting enough fresh air - I really don't know.

    But Apple isn't any better. Look how nicely they slapped into their customer faces with the iPhone pricedrop! Nice.

    Anyway you can have the glass half full or half empty with everything... it's always a matter of what you like or dislike - it's a personal opinion and everybody should use that that's best to reach her/his goals...

    It's somehow like a religion: you can have endless discussions about faith but in the end (if you take a big enough mass) everybody (speaking of percentage) will have the same option as before.

  • User profile image
    intelman

    Dharma Punk wrote:
    1) Have you tried running the Zune software in a 32-bit Windows virtual machine?

    2) There's no way this thread can get out of hand...


    I haven't tried that, I suppose I could use an old licensed copy of XP in a VM and try. It would just be a hassle to manage my library from there. Currently I'm using a separate 32bit machine to sync my Zune, but I'd rather use my 64bit machine since I convert the videos on there. I think there are hacks to get Zune software to work on 64bit, but that shouldn't be needed.

    As for the thread getting out of hand...who knows.

    LittleGuru: Points are well taken. I understand other products have bugs, but I am ready to change I really am. If I bought a PS3 instead of a 360, I bet I would have a smoother gaming expierence, if I bought a Macbook Pro, I bet I would also have a smoother expience than I do with Dell. There is that chance the Macbook would have been defective as well, but at least there are Apple Stores where I live. Right now there is a defective notebook on my desk, and it is basically useless because the power button doesn't work, now that is just wrong.

  • User profile image
    Royal​Schrubber

    Chinmay007 wrote:
    

    Yes,  a lot of people hate Microsoft and while a lot of 9'ers will question the people who hate Microsoft they rarely question Microsoft themselves. This should be a required reading for all Microsoft employees. I used to be a heavy Microsoft product user, but now I lean more toward Ubuntu as an OS and Apple products for hardware. Don't let the constant bashing of Linux and Apple get to you. They have strong followings because what they do is good stuff.



    I'm so effing tired of you. Are you SecretSoftware on another account? Stop with this preaching. We don't care if you've reached nirvana with ubuntu...

    I know you want to convince us that we are microsoft fanbois but you're not going to succed succeed here, you can't manipulate us like folks on other internet sites. Don't you think Beer28, Emet and other trolls already tried this?

  • User profile image
    ZippyV

    intelman wrote:
    
    Dharma Punk wrote:
    1) Have you tried running the Zune software in a 32-bit Windows virtual machine?

    2) There's no way this thread can get out of hand...


    I haven't tried that, I suppose I could use an old licensed copy of XP in a VM and try. It would just be a hassle to manage my library from there. Currently I'm using a separate 32bit machine to sync my Zune, but I'd rather use my 64bit machine since I convert the videos on there. I think there are hacks to get Zune software to work on 64bit, but that shouldn't be needed.


    Is not going to work. You cannot use usb from your virtual machine.

  • User profile image
    fdisk

    Say, is it just a rumor that a .NET 4.0 version of the framework is coming out early next year? I've heard it might have High Definition capabilities and maybe support for common appliances...

  • User profile image
    littleguru

    fdisk wrote:
    Say, is it just a rumor that a .NET 4.0 version of the framework is coming out early next year?


    I thought that's when .NET 3.5 is going to come out Smiley

  • User profile image
    Bas

    Chinmay007 wrote:
    

    Yes,  a lot of people hate Microsoft and while a lot of 9'ers will question the people who hate Microsoft they rarely question Microsoft themselves.



    Examples, please, sirhomer.

  • User profile image
    ScanIAm

    Chinmay007 wrote:
    

    Yes,  a lot of people hate Microsoft and while a lot of 9'ers will question the people who hate Microsoft they rarely question Microsoft themselves. This should be a required reading for all Microsoft employees. I used to be a heavy Microsoft product user, but now I lean more toward Ubuntu as an OS and Apple products for hardware. Don't let the constant bashing of Linux and Apple get to you. They have strong followings because what they do is good stuff.



    >sigh<

    You didn't even give the topic a chance. 

    Seriously, Chinmay, I wan't you to read this and understand it well:

    We don't love MSFT, we just hate YOU.



    Anyway, back to the topic:

    Most of the issues of the original post, seemed to be hardware issues.  While MSFT has a relatively decent track record with keyboards and mice, that's about where the party-train ends.  It sucks, but they just aren't hardware people.  Maybe, after the bad PR from the XBOX 360 and the weirdness of their Zune choices, they might get better at it, but you have to expect that a company that size will be littered with BOB type skeletons Smiley

    I'm not sure why the 64-bit windows doesn't have more support, but my guess is that there just isn't a critical mass of end users who have apps that need that much memory yet.  I'm running 2 copies of a pretty memory intensive game at home (EVE) and they run just fine on 2 gigs with a bunch of other apps open at the same time.  I'd be willing to bet that if/when the lack of addressable memory becomes an issue, we'll see way more support for 64-bit.  On a bright note, newer boutique mobo's are allowing 8gig so the trend should be improving.

  • User profile image
    Bas

    ScanIAm wrote:
    
    I'm not sure why the 64-bit windows doesn't have more support, but my guess is that there just isn't a critical mass of end users who have apps that need that much memory yet. 


    It doesn't help that Microsoft themselves seem to have very little interest in supporting x64 either.

  • User profile image
    intelman

    Bas wrote:
    
    ScanIAm wrote:
    
    I'm not sure why the 64-bit windows doesn't have more support, but my guess is that there just isn't a critical mass of end users who have apps that need that much memory yet. 


    It doesn't help that Microsoft themselves seem to have very little interest in supporting x64 either.


    That needs to change. I thought there was a reason retail boxes of Vista came with 32bit and 64bit. I was under the assumption that 64bit on a desktop would be fully supported.

  • User profile image
    davemc

    "Why the Microsoft/PC hate talk is justified" - Its NOT justified, you've  been unlucky.  Microsoft software in the last 5 years has improved in reliability, security and robustness way over other vendors.   But life is life and some people just get the hits. Personally I love Vista, I've tried Redhat Linux in the past at the behest of friends, couldn't understand the fuss, my 5 year old broke it in 5 mins. Went back to my trouble free XP and carried on doing me stuff.

    Some people complain about Ford motor vehicles being unreliable. I've had Fords for 10 years never had a breakdown.  We've had Dell computers at work for 5 years. Never had one breakdown, HP's in droves, Dell's never!  That's life pal, it colours your perception, that's fine, but its' YOUR view, not mine, and not a whole lot of other peoples, I'll be sticking with Microsoft as a platform and tools provider for a few years yet.  I'll be telling them when their stuff don't work for sure and encouraging them to fix it, but I won't be 'demanding' anything.  "I want, doesn't get!" not in my books anyhow.

  • User profile image
    ixdatul

    Chinmay007 wrote:
    Maybe you've been unlucky?


    And here I thought we finished this yesterday, stop the preaching or you and I will go rounds again.

  • User profile image
    ScanIAm

    intelman wrote:
    
    Bas wrote:
    
    ScanIAm wrote:
    
    I'm not sure why the 64-bit windows doesn't have more support, but my guess is that there just isn't a critical mass of end users who have apps that need that much memory yet. 


    It doesn't help that Microsoft themselves seem to have very little interest in supporting x64 either.


    That needs to change. I thought there was a reason retail boxes of Vista came with 32bit and 64bit. I was under the assumption that 64bit on a desktop would be fully supported.


    I think they view 64bit support the same way they viewed the 64bit/PowerPC stuff on their server line years and years ago.  It 'worked' but it was specialty software meant for specific applications. 

    It does seem a bit rediculous that they released another 32bit OS (vista) that is likely going to be running on a 64-bit CPU.  I'd have to guess, again, that they were looking to avoid issues with the rest of the software packages out there.  They'd all run in a 32-bit compatibility mode, but I read somewhere that they'd run slower.

  • User profile image
    ixdatul

    Chinmay007 wrote:
    
    ixdatul wrote:
    
    Chinmay007 wrote:
    Maybe you've been unlucky?


    And here I thought we finished this yesterday, stop the preaching or you and I will go rounds again.


    It's unlucky if you have problems with Vista, but it's not unlucky if you have problem with Red Hat. Good ol' fanboy hypocrasy at work again!


    Didn't you just say yesterday that RH 9 was "terrible outdated"? It's funny how you knock soemthing one day, and use it to your benefit the next.....oh wait..... isn't that just about the definition of hypocrasy?

    I know it's sad to get called out, but don't take it to hard, you do it to yourself.

  • User profile image
    intelman

    Running slower really isn't an issue. "32bit comapatibility" is not emulated, it is true 32bit code being executed. You might have known this, I don't know. I just never have expirenced application slowdown.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WOW64

  • User profile image
    ScanIAm

    intelman wrote:
    Running slower really isn't an issue. "32bit comapatibility" is not emulated, it is true 32bit code being executed. You might have known this, I don't know. I just never have expirenced application slowdown.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WOW64


    Alas, wikipedia is unavailable to me at the moment.

    I've never used 64bit mode, so it was a guess, but I do believe I'd heard that while 32-bit (windows) apps run faster on 64-bit hardware with a 32-bit OS, those same 32-bit apps don't run as fast on 64-bit hardware with a 64-bit OS.

    meh, just a rumor, perhaps.

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