Coffeehouse Thread

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  • User profile image
    jsampsonPC

    nada

  • User profile image
    jamie

    haha all the time.  "make it flat"  ... but vista is all 3d with reflections ... if you want it to look new ...  "face book is flat - make it flat"

    ha

  • User profile image
    W3bbo

    [quote user="jsampsonPC"Anybody ever been here?[/quote]

    Yeah, happend when I was 17 and hired by some guy for some webwork. Total conservative (to the point of insisting we use age-old WYSIWYG page generators, wtf? Fortunately I was able to use my copy of VS)

    But in your case, I wouldn't know; got a link to the site in question?

  • User profile image
    W3bbo

    jsampsonPC wrote:
    
    W3bbo wrote:
    ...got a link to the site in question?


    Ugh, I don't even want anybody knowing that I had any part in this Hehe.


    Naw, post it, I dares ya!

  • User profile image
    ScanIAm

    If you're good (and you probably are) then you'll eventually outgrow this company.  Use it as an example of what not to do for when you have more creative freedom.

    It sucks, but sometimes, you just have to bite your tongue and implement the boss' goofy brainchild Sad

  • User profile image
    Cybermagell​an

    jSampson....

    It's your business man. We've talked, you got a job working in a niche that doesn't need/want creativity.

  • User profile image
    Charles

    There's always going to be a struggle between creativity and business objectives.

    Find the right balance rather than giving up.

    If your flashy UI/UX impacts business objectives in a positive way, then your bosses will be inclined to support it, assuming they are good businesspeople...

    Sometimes lack of flash is the right thing to do. In the end, you want people to use your site, not just stare at it...

    C

  • User profile image
    Minh

    It REALLY depends on the company. Sometimes, the stream is too strong. Sometimes swimming up that stream is a losing cause. Then, it's time to move on.

    But there are lots of companies that are not like that.

    The secret is to get to know the business guys / gals. Go to lunch with them. Have a beer with them. Be nice to your immediate managers, but there are those whose sole purpose is to enforce the company's procedures. They won't like it when you go over their heads. And can't wait when you make a mistake.

    * My opinion is my own & does not represent or implication of any past, present, or future employers Smiley

  • User profile image
    Kayler

    Like in most jobs, especially when starting out, it is hard to build the demand and respect that you rightfully feel you deserve from your years of experience.  What it really comes down to is that you're the new guy, do the job we want.

    I understand you are probably a talented web developer, but like any job you have to do what your customer wants. 

    I find, for myself, it is better to build a relationship first.  Let them understand what you can do, and why it is better.  Let them decide that they want what you can provide.  Sometimes this invovles showing a lot of examples that get scrapped, but like any great developer we don't throw our old code away.

  • User profile image
    dahat

    If they wont let you be creative on the front end... is there any hope of being more creative and designing more elegant back ends?

  • User profile image
    ZippyV

    ScanIAm wrote:
    Use it as an example of what not to do for when you have more creative freedom.


    Indeed. Portfolio-level +1

  • User profile image
    Yggdrasil

    A few years ago, a web-designer friend of mine got a job to build a catalog site for a building-supply company. She worked hard and made a lovely site - soothing colors, nice fonts, good layout, the work. The client took one look at it and tossed it out the window. He wanted it in garish yellow and large blocky fonts. My friend resisted. She was the creative one! She knew how to make it beautiful and easy! Why wouldn't he see that?
    So he explained to her that beautiful is very nice and all, but when you're making a site oriented towards building-supplies purchasers, you want to make it the same style as the paper catalogs they're used to, and these are uniformly yellow and blocky. You want to make it familiar and expected, and that trumps beautiful every day.

    It was a good lesson for me. It may sound bad when you say it like that, but a good product does what the customer needs, not what you find pretty/effective/useful.

  • User profile image
    irascian

    I think you're obsessing over minutae. After 30 years in the industry I've yet to see a single case of the end-users NOT wanting to "just change this" or "just change that" multiple times until things get to the point where what they decide they "want" looks worse than what was first proposed. It's part of development life.

    In the case of the images you've posted I think the differences are so minimal as to be largely irrelevant and certainly not worth getting upset over. Truth is generally clients end up deviating far more from what was clearly a better design by the time they've finished farting around with all their different ideas. Everybody has an opinion and everybody feels their opinion needs to be implemented in some form or fashion in the UI. That's life when there are no real hard and fast rules and so much is down to "personal perception".

    Just read the posts here about Vista look and feel or Office 2007 look and feel or Channel 9 look and feel and the number of opposing opinions. It's impossible to make everyone happy and any one of the three designs you've shown looks fine to me.  I was expecting the final design to be far worse based on your original post.

  • User profile image
    jamie

    jsampsonPC wrote:






    .. i'd use... the "offered" one: the tabs look new, clear

    ..as for the end one.. sort of need to see sub nav - how did they do it??

    liked yours

  • User profile image
    W3bbo

    jamie wrote:
    
    jsampsonPC wrote:






    .. i'd use... the "offered" one: the tabs look new, clear

    ..as for the end one.. sort of need to see sub nav - how did they do it??

    liked yours


    Red on orange is a horrible colour scheme, and the nav makes no sense.

    Jonathan, I like yours yeah.... but I think the tabs would look better with just a 2-point linear gradient rather than a 4-point glass gradient.

    But red on orange? Blegh! I actually feel sick looking at it.

  • User profile image
    thumbtacks2

    With site design (and even small database design) there are often several issues involved...(warning: preaching ahead)

    1) How the information behind the scenes is organized
    2) What the UI looks like
    3) How easy it is to navigate
    4) How it handles changing future business needs

    Often, you'll have to make many compromises on these and other issues.

    For #1, this is a huge consideration for developers and the people who have to maintain the site. The end user may or may not care about this part...although I would argue that a well designed and well organized back-end make things go a lot smoother on the front end.

    For #2, this can be a selling point for an end user, but if you behind the scenes organization is bad, or the tab order (for instance) is all whacked (#3), nobody will care.

    For #3, poor navigation can kill a site fast. 

    For #4, this can be a pain for both the end user and the developer, but often many of these issues don't crop up until a system is already in place and in use. Here's where previous experience can really pay off.

    That said, I think the look of your idea is great. I noticed several differences in the organization of the information between all three versions, however...so I'm not sure what I can comment on there. I don't know who your end users are.

    btw, thanks, now I'm thinking of picking up a bacon double cheeseburger from Burger King for lunch.

  • User profile image
    pruckelshaus

    jsampsonPC wrote:
    
    W3bbo wrote:
    ...got a link to the site in question?


    Ugh, I don't even want anybody knowing that I had any part in this Hehe.


    Yeah, I've had sites like that.  Always better to leave them off the resume.

    Pete

  • User profile image
    figuerres

    WOW,

    Ya never know....

    yeah what you did was good looking; save that for later...

    perhaps some kind of test might be done...  offer some groups of users each of the designs and see what wins.

    that might be one way to show them....

    someone has no clue about what looks good but is calling the shots i guess.

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