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Illegal Numbers?

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  • User profile image
    GoddersUK

    I just found this article which I found immensely interesting.

    It poses the question of whether or not it is possible for a number to be illegal - specifically in relation to the fact that a file is essentially just a very large binary number and that you could send it as such to someone, causing possible copy protection issues. - unless you can copyright the number.


    It also touches on the recent HD DVD key leak and compression of numbers.

    So do you guys think we can have illegal numbers?

    (As a side note, I seem to recall that if you find certain large primes you can't share them because they are used for governmental encryption etc., is this correct?)

  • User profile image
    DoomBringer

    oh sure -- like eleventeen and thirty-twelve

  • User profile image
    Matthew van Eerde

    Numbers are a way of storing information... it's not the number that's illegal, it's the distribution of information.  This is not just the number alone, but the marriage of the number and the interpretation strategy.

  • User profile image
    rcardona

    I have a trademark on 1™ Send your monies to me

  • User profile image
    cheong

    I think RIFF media formats(like CorelDraw's CDR, I'm not sure about the others) store data in fixed size chunks, making the file size high probability to be non-unique if the size is near.

    So this doesn't sound like something reasonable.

    Recent Achievement unlocked: Code Avenger Tier 4/6: You see dead program. A lot!
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  • User profile image
    evildictait​or

    GoddersUK wrote:

    So do you guys think we can have illegal numbers?


    Yes, since a number is a transfer of information, and information can be subject to copyright and intellectual property laws.

    Think of what happens if we assume that all numbers should be illegal:

    Content Provider:
        I just made new music/software/movies
    Bittorrenter:
       
    Yoink
    Content Provider:
        *Sue*
    Legal team:
        You can't sue because all I sent was an astronomically huge number that just so happened to correspond to the binary signature of your music/software/movies
    Content Provider:
       
    What? Theft is legal? I'm moving me and my business to Canada
    US Government:
       
    Oh noes!


    And the US Government "Oh noes!" is to law what "contradiction" is to maths. Therefore numbers can (and will) be made subject to copyright.

    Thankfully you should only expect this to occur to numbers so big you can't say them out loud in less than a day.

  • User profile image
    Minh

    Yeah... And books are technically parchment with combinations of glyphs on them.


  • User profile image
    Lloyd_Humph

    esoteric wrote:
    
    In the digital world, numbers are valuable.


    Especially 1 and 0. We would be nowhere without binary.

    If Blackberrys are addictive cellphones, Channel9 is the ultimate addictive website.
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  • User profile image
    GoddersUK

    There are 10 types of people in this world. Those who understand binary and those that don't.

    Smiley

  • User profile image
    esoteric

    Obviously some numbers are copyrighted and protected. But I like and share the perspective on media and data as numbers. You aren't allowed to copy copyrighted MP3's just because they're zipped or otherwise transformed.

    Having begun working with Microsoft Dynamics NAV, I can't help but marvel at the bussiness model they've pulled off. A model where objects cost money to deploy. They all have unique ID's so it'll always be safe to merge objects from different companies because the objects are guaranteed to lie inside different ranges. It's a bussiness model that actually encourages programmers to create very large tables and code units, so as to not cost the company money for new object licences. [I may have somewhat misrepresented the model, as I'm new to it.]

    In the digital world, numbers are valuable.

  • User profile image
    Lloyd_Humph

    GoddersUK wrote:
    There are 10 types of people in this world. Those who understand binary and those that don't.




    lol, but I prefer this:

    There are 3 types of people in this world, those who can count and those who can't.

    Yours is better but is generally not "gotten" in general society.

    If Blackberrys are addictive cellphones, Channel9 is the ultimate addictive website.
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  • User profile image
    Lloyd_Humph

    GoddersUK wrote:
    There are 10 types of people in this world. Those who understand binary and those that don't.




    lol, but I prefer this:

    There are 3 types of people in this world, those who can count and those who can't.

    Yours is better but is generally not "gotten" in general society.

    If Blackberrys are addictive cellphones, Channel9 is the ultimate addictive website.
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  • User profile image
    W3bbo

    Lloyd_Humph wrote:
    
    GoddersUK wrote:
    There are 10 types of people in this world. Those who understand binary and those that don't.




    lol, but I prefer this:

    There are 3 types of people in this world, those who can count and those who can't.

    Yours is better but is generally not "gotten" in general society.


    But that's what makes it funny: esoteric appeal and making people feel like idiots Smiley

    The past week I've been wearing a tshirt with this printed on. (the real joke's with the bottom formula: the Laplace Transform). You can buy it here.

  • User profile image
    Angus

    GoddersUK wrote:
    There are 10 types of people in this world. Those who understand binary and those that don't.




    The problem with this joke is that people say "ten", when it is "one-zero". Tongue Out

    I always tell them this when they try to tell the joke.

    Angus Higgins

  • User profile image
    GoddersUK

    Angus wrote:
    The problem with this joke is that people say "ten", when it is "one-zero".

    I always tell them this when they try to tell the joke.

    Angus Higgins


    Yeh, I find it works best when written down. Wink

  • User profile image
    Matthew van Eerde

    Angus wrote:
    The problem with this joke is that people say "ten", when it is "one-zero".


    Mathematically speaking, "one-zero" (10) is pronounced "ten" in any base.

    Counting in binary:

    one, ten, eleven, one hundred, one hundred one...

    Counting in octal:

    ... five, six, seven, ten, eleven... seventy-seven, one hundred...

    Counting in hex:

    "d", "e", "f", ten, eleven, ... "a"-teen (sounds like "eighteen?"), ...

    This many
    ..... .....

    is pronounced as follows:

    Binary: "One thousand ten"

    Octal: "Twelve"

    Decimal: "Ten"

    Hex: "A"

  • User profile image
    GoddersUK

    Matthew van Eerde wrote:
    Mathematically speaking, "one-zero" (10) is pronounced "ten" in any base.


    I never knew that...

    that would make the spoken joke even funnier (to those who understand it)

  • User profile image
    evildictait​or

    Matthew van Eerde wrote:
    
    Angus wrote:
    The problem with this joke is that people say "ten", when it is "one-zero".


    Mathematically speaking, "one-zero" (10) is pronounced "ten" in any base.

    Counting in binary:

    one, ten, eleven, one hundred, one hundred one...

    Counting in octal:

    ... five, six, seven, ten, eleven... seventy-seven, one hundred...

    Counting in hex:

    "d", "e", "f", ten, eleven, ... "a"-teen (sounds like "eighteen?"), ...

    This many
    ..... .....

    is pronounced as follows:

    Binary: "One thousand ten"

    Octal: "Twelve"

    Decimal: "Ten"

    Hex: "A"


    Are you sure? I've done math in lots of bases for just an insy bit of time now, and everyone says the characters one-after-the-other.

    5 = 101B = "One-oh-one"
    255 = 0xFF = "eff-eff"

    etc.

    The color red, for instance, is eff-eff-oh-oh-oh-oh, not eff-hundred effety thousand whenever I (or anyone else I've heard for that matter) have said it out loud.

    But maybe this is because I do crazy foreign math.

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