Coffeehouse Thread

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Unbundle Windows from PCs urges EU think tank

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  • RamblingGeek​UK

    Link

    My first reaction to this is it's a bad idea, as it will increase costs as it will lead to more support calls to the OEM's

    I'm sitting on the fence on this, I think it would be better to force MS to lower OS prices....

    Oh... Perplexed... Going to have a think about this now...

    What do you think?

  • Massif

    It's not likely to work, as they'd have to ship PCs with install disks for the OS anyway. So unless they ship the PCs with "insert this to install windows" and "insert this to install linux" disks, they're just going to watch PC sales plummet. And if OEMs just ship with the windows disks you can see that anyone who thinks unbundling is a good idea isn't going to be satisfied.

    People want their PCs to be more like an appliance, not less, and legislating to introduce an enormous speed bump in the setup process is going to make a lot of people very unhappy.

    Plus it's just plain confusing. No consumer in their right mind would want to have to choose between OSs as well as just having to fight through the marketing jargon to decide which PC to buy. I get annoyed enough with adverts with smug shop assistants going "it's got an intel core 2 duo process, and a widescreen monitor, so it's perfect for your daughter's college work!" and vacant, bovine consumers going "oohh.. sounds great, I'll have two, and for only 3 9 9." (Also, what the hell happened to the word "hundred" and other words like "ninety, eighty etc...")

    Now we'll have vacant, bovine consumers going "and it comes with an install CD, sounds perfect! I'll get my cat one too... Oh, and also I need a 500 Gig external hard disk for no reason that any sane consumer would ever think up."

    But I'm overreacting, "think tank" means "bunch of opinionated tossers in a room." and doesn't reflect the opinion of anyone at all. So we can all calm down, and go about the business of ignoring them.

  • RamblingGeek​UK

    Bravo! Big Smile

  • ScanIAm

    It might be worthwhile to force PC manufacturers to offer the option to buy a PC without an OS.  That way, the *nix crowd will STFU about the 'Windows Tax'.  They are going to be a bit disappointed, however, when they see how little of the price is going towards Bill Gate's stash of monacles, tophats, and cigars.

    It seems to me that the EU is a bit too OCD about windows, lately. 

  • dahat

    ScanIAm wrote:
    That way, the *nix crowd will STFU about the 'Windows Tax'.  They are going to be a bit disappointed, however, when they see how little of the price is going towards Bill Gate's stash of monacles, tophats, and cigars.


    We've already seen that with the Ubuntu loaded Dell machines.

    As nifty as an idea as this is for leaving the door open to consumer choice... it's not very well thought out as it ignores the big box retailer where plenty of people go to buy a box that works... right out of the box.

    While I've never purchased such a PC, I've helped countless others do so and not one of them would have liked the idea of having to wait even an hour to have their PC setup with the OS of their choice because they would ask "What's an OS?"

  • ManipUni

    ... And put what on it? ...

    There are only two "consumer ready" Operating Systems currently on the market - Windows, and OS X. And I think it is pretty clear that Apple has no desire to allow their OS to be installed on all x86 64 hardware.

    Oh and please don't give me junk about Ubuntu ... Those guys are so busy making sure their 3D cube windows can spin in every which direction, they forgot to address usability.

  • ScanIAm

    dahat wrote:
    

    ScanIAm wrote:
    That way, the *nix crowd will STFU about the 'Windows Tax'.  They are going to be a bit disappointed, however, when they see how little of the price is going towards Bill Gate's stash of monacles, tophats, and cigars.


    We've already seen that with the Ubuntu loaded Dell machines.

    As nifty as an idea as this is for leaving the door open to consumer choice... it's not very well thought out as it ignores the big box retailer where plenty of people go to buy a box that works... right out of the box.

    While I've never purchased such a PC, I've helped countless others do so and not one of them would have liked the idea of having to wait even an hour to have their PC setup with the OS of their choice because they would ask "What's an OS?"



    Actually, you have a good point there.  I'm a dork, so I'll build a machine and install the OS, but if I'm buying an mp3 player or a phone or something, I want it NOW! 

    So much so, that I bought a pair of industrial scissors to help bypass that annoying and sharp plastic see-thru shell around some electronics. 

    And, again, even if all you had to do was put a DVD in the drive, I watched my mom spend a few minutes struggling with an upside down CD install a few years ago (bless her heart, she don't get it).

  • Ray6

    Cars.

    When you think about, cars haven't really progressed in the last ten years or so. I mean, most of them still need petrol, right?

    So the Rayz Institute, a globally unheard-of think tank based in S(I need to watch my language)horpe, has come up with a recommendationIn order to give the consumer the largest possible range of choices, we urge that engines, should be unbundled from cars.

    The problem isn't the bundling. The problem is that Apple isn't interested, and the FOSS crowd think marketing means signing onto MS forums under different ids, and posting messages saying how crap Vista is.

    When the FOSS learns to give people what they want, rather than what they want them to want, then we will see real competition.


    And what the hell is a 'think tank' anyway?

  • cain

    What's a think tank?

    http://www.ctrlaltdel-online.com/comic.php?d=20070921

    That's a think tank.

  • Steve411

    That guy is a damn crack head. End users want a machine that works out of the box .. like the MAC. Why the hell should we/them/us have to put a DVD in and install the OS our self?

    Imagine if the installation failed, how many pissed off customers would Dell, HP and others have?

    Maybe the mac should not come pre-installed with it's own OS and start opening its hardware devices to work with windows. ..

    - Steve

  • Ray6

    Ray6 wrote:
    Cars.

    When you think about, cars haven't really progressed in the last ten years or so. I mean, most of them still need petrol, right?

    So the Rayz Institute, a globally unheard-of think tank based in S(I need to watch my language)horpe, has come up with a recommendationIn order to give the consumer the largest possible range of choices, we urge that engines, should be unbundled from cars.

    The problem isn't the bundling. The problem is that Apple isn't interested, and the FOSS crowd think marketing means signing onto MS forums under different ids, and posting messages saying how crap Vista is.

    When the FOSS learns to give people what they want, rather than what they want them to want, then we will see real competition.


    And what the hell is a 'think tank' anyway?


    S-C-U-N-T-H-O-R-P-E

    ... oh I see what happened there ...

    I think you're swearbox is a little bit overzealous wouldn't you say?

    Perplexed



  • evildictait​or

    While all this sentiment is great and all, surely the consumer has the right to not pay for an OS when they buy a computer.

    I'm not saying that 98% of the world who are happy with Windows and think that Word is part of the Operating System, and should all come "in the box" shouldn't pay an extra $150 for a pre-installed OS, but surely someone who wants Linux (god bless 'em) shouldn't be forced to pay for the Windows licence that they won't use.

    Perhaps it would be nice if you could phone up a computer store and explicitly demand an OS-free computer for $150 off the retail price, but you concede that in eight weeks time someone will pop round to make sure you don't have illegal windows running on your computer.

  • PerfectPhase

    evildictaitor wrote:
    Perhaps it would be nice if you could phone up a computer store and explicitly demand an OS-free computer for $150 off the retail price,


    Utter bollocks. The cost saving of getting dell to remove the OEM copy of XP Pro from the machines we buy is about £20.

    The only thing I would ask for is that you have the option to buy whatever hardware you want without an OS, and this includes Apple.  The OEM can supply whatever they want, just windows or OSX or whatever they like provide you have the option of none.

    The people that are expecting this to save them the cost of a retail copy of XP are in for a shock though.

    But then again the volume license SA versions of XP and Vista are UPGRADE only, thus forcing me to buy a PC with an OS indirectly, and letting the OEM put XP on it is about the cheapest way.

  • PerfectPhase

    evildictaitor wrote:
    
    Either way, let's try and keep this a friendly discussion.


    Sorry, that was meant as a friendly rebuke, no offence meant!

  • evildictait​or

    PerfectPhase wrote:
    
    evildictaitor wrote:
    Perhaps it would be nice if you could phone up a computer store and explicitly demand an OS-free computer for $150 off the retail price,


    Utter bollocks. The cost saving of getting dell to remove the OEM copy of XP Pro from the machines we buy is about £20.


    How about removing all software that comes with the PC that also only runs on Windows?

    Either way, let's try and keep this a friendly discussion.

    Edit: And if I forced you to pay for an AOL disk for $50 when you buy a car, you'd be pretty miffed too.

  • PerfectPhase

    evildictaitor wrote:
    
    PerfectPhase wrote:
    
    evildictaitor wrote:
    Perhaps it would be nice if you could phone up a computer store and explicitly demand an OS-free computer for $150 off the retail price,


    Utter bollocks. The cost saving of getting dell to remove the OEM copy of XP Pro from the machines we buy is about £20.


    How about removing all software that comes with the PC that also only runs on Windows?


    In all my dealings with Dell (other may be different) the total cost saving of removing all the junk (Works, Roxio, XP etc) has always been in the ~£20-£25 mark!  

  • evildictait​or

    PerfectPhase wrote:
    
    In all my dealings with Dell (other may be different) the total cost saving of removing all the junk (Works, Roxio, XP etc) has always been in the ~£20-£25 mark!  


    That sounds a bit low, but you clearly know more about this than I do. Either way, however, it's still money lost, and one could argue that you shouldn't be forced to pay a penny for stuff that you don't actually want.

  • Xaero_​Vincent

    Windows PCs are cheap because all of the garbage that comes pre-installed on them to reduce the overhead costs. So in the end Windows PCs cost about $50 more when $100+ worth of garbage trialware is bundled.

    Still, everyone should be allowed to buy a computer without an OS pre-installed if they desire. Not everyone wants to pay more to build their own system just for the privilage. Plus, what if they wanted a notebook? There is no real choice there.

    As for Apple... Apple has never been known to support consumer choice. They would love to lock people onto their hardware. Apple doesn't want people to know that their systems are merely PCs when OSX is removed... so they are unlikily to support such such a cause.

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