Coffeehouse Thread

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Hey, um Rory...

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  • User profile image
    Cybermagell​an

    Any words on life wise sage? No offense, just rather not take the route you did.

    http://shawnsblog.wordpress.com/2007/09/27/personal-life/

  • User profile image
    Minh
  • User profile image
    Cybermagell​an

    http://shawnsblog.wordpress.com/2007/09/29/how-do-you-tell-a-child/

    This explains what I'm going through...sorry for the blog spam, just asking for different experience feedback.

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    littleguru

    Man! I'm so with you! I hope everything turns out better in the future...

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    Dr Herbie

    Cybermagellan wrote:
    http://shawnsblog.wordpress.com/2007/09/29/how-do-you-tell-a-child/

    This explains what I'm going through...sorry for the blog spam, just asking for different experience feedback.


    Sorry Cyber, I have no experience with this to share.
    The childcare experts all emphesise stability and routine for children.  Seems like your relationship with the childrens mother was not too stable.  Perhaps the best thing (long term) is for them to be with you rather than their mother.
    In your shoes I'd be as honest with the children as possible (without being too explicit about the sex offender). 
    Try to make sure they understand that it's not ther fault.
    Give them stability.
    Let them know they are loved.
    Hope for the best.
    Don't be afraid to ask for help (I had a hard time looking after just two kids last week when my wife was too ill to care for them, I called on my mother-in-law to help).

    Sometimes as a father you just have to get your head down, work hard, and be there for your children. Put everything else on hold and just work, care, sleep for a few months until things settle down.

    Herbie

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    rjdohnert

    2 weeks ago I had to bury my ex-wife.  Even though she was an ex and we split up under extremely bad circumstances I still loved her.  I just didnt realize how much.  There is one thing that does survive time, it survives life and it survives death.  That one thing is love.  I hope none of you ever have to do that although life and death are the constant in this world.

    So Shawn and Rory and anyone else, before you decide to off yourselves just think about what it will do to your families and the people that do care about you.

    As for the dirtbag/wasteofsperm/wasteofoxygen/scumsucking leech my ex was dating.  Two days after she died he moves in with his ex/on-again girlfriend.  Shows how much he cared huh?

  • User profile image
    Lloyd_Humph

    rjdohnert wrote:
    

    2 weeks ago I had to bury my ex-wife.  Even though she was an ex and we split up under extremely bad circumstances I still loved her.  I just didnt realize how much.  There is one thing that does survive time, it survives life and it survives death.  That one thing is love.  I hope none of you ever have to do that although life and death are the constant in this world.

    So Shawn and Rory and anyone else, before you decide to off yourselves just think about what it will do to your families and the people that do care about you.

    As for the dirtbag/wasteofsperm/wasteofoxygen/scumsucking leech my ex was dating.  Two days after she died he moves in with his ex/on-again girlfriend.  Shows how much he cared huh?



    Ouch.

    At least _you_ cared. That's what matters.

    If Blackberrys are addictive cellphones, Channel9 is the ultimate addictive website.
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  • User profile image
    Cybermagell​an

    rjdohnert wrote:
    

    2 weeks ago I had to bury my ex-wife.  Even though she was an ex and we split up under extremely bad circumstances I still loved her.  I just didnt realize how much.  There is one thing that does survive time, it survives life and it survives death.  That one thing is love.  I hope none of you ever have to do that although life and death are the constant in this world.

    So Shawn and Rory and anyone else, before you decide to off yourselves just think about what it will do to your families and the people that do care about you.

    As for the dirtbag/wasteofsperm/wasteofoxygen/scumsucking leech my ex was dating.  Two days after she died he moves in with his ex/on-again girlfriend.  Shows how much he cared huh?



    Yeah I'm not going to. I'm going to start going to a group counseling session to try to get over things.

    And I'm just waiting....I'm willing to bet once the fun/meth/freedom runs out she's gonna be knocking on the door again. This time it's not opening though.

  • User profile image
    Cybermagell​an

    So today was a day I got to spend with my 6 year old daughter. So I already got practice with my deal for the other ones...

    http://shawnsblog.wordpress.com/2007/09/30/one-down-three-to-go/

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    Rory

    Hey, mon -

    I just went over to your site and left a comment, though I didn't see the comment appear. I don't know if they're moderated or what, but there wasn't a message stating as much, so... I'm going to post the comment here, too. I'll check back at your site later to see what happened:

    ----------

    As someone who has repeatedly cried - sobbed - at work, I can hopefully tell you a few things:

    1. It doesn't help much to hear that life has this way of mending itself, but I still have to say it. I ignored it whenever I heard it because it did *nothing* to fix whatever acute mess I was in, but I've always looked back on those episodes and thought, "Huh. It *did* get better."

    2. Although this won't sound like a bright side to your situation, it sounds like whatever has you down was a specific event. I don't know - judging from the order of photos and the caption for the final one, I can guess. Whatever it is, though, if you're feeling down because things have gone horribly wrong, then that's a good thing. For over half my life, you could have dropped a sack of cash and a gorgeous woman in my lap, and I wouldn't have cared. I probably would have cried Smiley

    Feeling down in response to an event is *completely* normal. Even feeling like life is worthless. I just watched my best friend go through the messiest breakup I've ever seen. He had only been with this girl a couple years, but he had grown quite attached to her. I've been down to Portland a dozen times over the past month just to try and to... *anything* to cheer him up. It's gotten very dramatic, but that's normal, you know?

    When my French grandmother died last year, I thought I'd never feel all right again. Yeah, it took nearly a year for me to find my feet again, but life still found its way back. To be fair, though, I'm past my drug addiction, and the suicidal ideations have been medicated out of my mind. Three months ago, I genuinely wanted to die; right now I think I feel better than I've ever felt (sober) since I was about 13.

    Some advice for powering through what you're feeling - all the stuff that's getting you down - upsetting you - it *is* going to take off. You'll adjust. You can speed things up by doing things out of your routine. People create associations left and right in the strangest ways. One reason I've left Microsoft isn't that it was tough, but because I associate it with Kori, Aydika, losing both of my grandmothers, having had my mom thrown in jail, spending time in hospitals, doing tons of drugs to forget about all the other crap, and more... that's just too much. I feel the same way about certain restaurants, cafes, bards - places I immediately associate with a previous life that I'm not ready to think about yet.

    Everybody says it, but exercise is huge. If you pick up a jogging or biking or whatevering habit, you'll eventually get to the point where your body releases endorphins. People talk about these, but don't seem to know what they are - they're naturally occurring opiates in your own body. They aren't the same as morphine or whatever, which is good - there's just a slight hint of mood elevation. It's amazing. The problem is that, when feeling down, people often feel lethargic. Exercise *sounds* like a good idea, but... not today.

    3. Sometimes things reach a point where you need a shove. There are meds that can be used for short periods to get people out of their funks. Some of it's benign, while some *can* produce dependency if taken for too long, but the course of these meds for short term depression are so short that the danger is virtually nonexistent.

    People usually don't want meds, but if you're feeling miserable, and if you know you want to feel better, then meds should be considered. Stay away from the SSRIs (prozac, etc.) - I've taken just about all of them, and they're all messed up. Bad, bad news. However, if your doc recommends something like Wellbutrin, then it'd be worth considering. It's non-addictive, it'll give you a little pep, and it should provide a boost to your sense of well being.

    Some ADD meds are used as well. For short term courses, you'd probably get adderall, which is just a mild amphetamine. That sounds bad, but an amphetamine without the "meth" in front of it is a perfectly safe class of meds. If you have high blood pressure, or if there's a clear history of early stroke or heart attack in your family, then you'd want to stay away. Otherwise, it's a fine med. To keep the story short, it works on some Feel Good bits of the brain while also giving you the energy to stop dreading getting out of bed. There are various stimulants (including non-amphetamines) that can be used for short term depression, and they even come in time release formulations so that you don't have a big down in the day. One was even released in patch form - Daytrana - a formulation of Concerta which is a non-amphetamine stimulant.

    Some docs would prescribe short courses of opioids like hydrocodone or oxycodone. If you can tolerate these meds (some people get really nauseous), then they're fantastic. The problem comes when you move on to bigger opioids after treatment and start an addiction for yourself. That's not how I got into it, but I could see that happening.

    If you can find a doctor who will do it, there's mounting evidence that ketamine can totally alleviate depression for a few days at a time following a single two hour infusion. However, because that's so off-label that there isn't even a label to be off of, it's highly unlikely you'll find anybody besides my old dealer who would do it. But it really is supposed to work amazingly well.

    If you feel like you don't need pep or a distinct mood elevation, you could go on a temporary course of lithium. It doesn't take too long to begin working - it can be within a couple days, or a week, give or take - but when it kicks in, you might find that a lot of the negative feelings in your head recede a bit. Lithium is great because, at least for me, it did away with the extreme thoughts, and left me only feeling bad about what I *should* fee bad about. It was several days into my lithium treatment that, for the first time in a decade, the constant buzzing of suicidal thoughts in my head finally quieted down (and eventually disappeared).

    There are some considerations with lithium, but it's extremely safe for the most part. You'll have to get a couple blood tests to ensure that you have a therapeutic, non-toxic level of lithium in your blood. It's no biggie, and it's totally worth the positive effects. You might also have to avoid certain things - alcohol, excessive salt, most over the counter pain killers other than aspirin - but since this would hopefully only be temporary for you, that shouldn't be a big deal.

    --

    I guess that's about it:

    1. Make some lifestyle changes - temporary or otherwise - to get your mind focused on something other than the pain and things associated with it.

    2. Take solace in the fact that you're reacting normally to a stressful situation. What it is, I don't know, but it's clearly buggin' ya.

    3. If it gets to the point that you think meds would help - if you're almost unable to get out of bed - if you're unable to focus during the day - if nothing sounds "good" to you - if you lose the ability to enjoy life even a little - then, seriously, consider them. And consider the list. I'm very serious about the med stuff, as I've been nailed (and watched other people get screwed) by bad meds. No prozac. No SSRIs at all. They'll make you worse before you get "better" anyway, and "better" is just zombie mode.

    I hope this helps. If there's any other advice I can give that would be of use, then definitely let me know. I've been where you are, and the feelings of isolation are horrible.

    Look forward to the day when you'll look back on this and wonder how you ever could have felt so bad Smiley

    It'll come.

  • User profile image
    Cybermagell​an

    Thanks Rory,
          Yeah everyone has been saying about the same thing. It's something I'm slowly getting over. I think it's just a matter of time now.

    I joined a Grief and Loss Group (I don't think I'm going back though), that had some tidbits of wisdom, however this group was a matter of a bunch of older women (50 ~ 60) that were bothered by their exhusbands dying...despite what everyone thinks (and RJ and Jonathan can probably appreciate) even though you're divorced I can see still loving that person.

    Meds are right out. Any medication that I would use for this would more than likely incapacitate me....remember Neo when he finds out the Matrix isn't real...ya I kinda act like that on anything stronger than Motrin.

    My mom had talked to me about it (just about everyday), and it's a matter of Karma methinks. There is only so long you can go without your family before you feel that strain of "Oh crap I messed up". My management at work has been uber excellent and flexible and the friends I have are being real supportive. Everyday I go through this is more like being more structured, I've started working out again...I cleaned my house, I moved the furniture the way I like, and things seem OK.

    Like RJ went through, I worry...and I hope nothing happens, yet at the same time karma is a b(*&h and I know when the day comes it catches up things are going to straighten themselves out one way or another.

    Thnx.

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    John Melville-- MD

    I feel compelled to mention that just about all the advice about drugs in the prior post is extremely poor medical advice.  The reason he can't find a doctor to implement it is thay any doctor who did would (and should) lose his or her medical license.

  • User profile image
    Rory

    John Melville, MD wrote:
    I feel compelled to mention that just about all the advice about drugs in the prior post is extremely poor medical advice.  The reason he can't find a doctor to implement it is thay any doctor who did would (and should) lose his or her medical license.


    The only thing on the list for which you couldn't find a willing doc is the ketamine thing. It's something supposedly worth paying attention to, but I was bringing it up as something to think about. I wasn't giving advice - I was telling him to go find a ketamine hookup.

    As for the rest of the meds, I feel compelled to mention that the vast majority of the docs I've seen for depression have engaged in this fire-and-forget medicating, and that it absolutely wasn't just limited to me.

    I've gone through quite a few doctors over the years, and I've learned just how excited they are to prescribe SSRIs for depression. Fine, they work for some people, but for many others they barely score higher than placebo. CBT is practically on the level with the therapeutic effect of SSRIs. And, yeah, I'm generalizing about SSRIs when there are many, but - without exception - the docs who've prescribed them for me have always told me they're basically the same. If they want to generalize, I might as well, too. It makes me immature, but what else is new.

    Before I go any further, I should ask about what kind of an MD you are. There are plenty of cars that can be serviced at any old garage, but there are more and more nowadays that require specialized service from a specific dealership. My car is like that - just had to drive it an hour and a half in traffic to get the oil changed.

    So, are you the garage where any car can park it and get a general sort of repair, or are you the dealership that takes only specific cars?

    In other words, do you treat burns, scrapes, and cuts, or do you specialize in treating mental illness?

    Would you want a PHP coder working on a C# project?

    The information I get from my GP - whos fantastic, by the way - is worlds apart from the information I get from the shrinks I've seen. I don't think it's a stretch to say that my shrink is going to be a bit ahead regarding mental illness than a GP (I don't mean to imply that you're a GP - it's just a generic guess).

    Another way to think about it - would you want my shrink treating burns, scrapes, and cuts? Or setting broken bones? Or doing prostate exams?

    I don't think so.

    Now, moving on, everything that I wrote above I wrote with things like this in mind. Regardless of what you believe, there *are* docs out there who will prescribe various seemingly inappropriate meds for treatment of depression. Hydrocodone, for example - I've been spoken to a few times about it as a possible means of getting through a particularly bad episode. 'Course, after self-medicating for depression with morphine for a little too long, I no longer have the hydrocodone discussion. I didn't think I'd want it, but it turns out I wanted it a bit too much.

    So, I'm reporting based on my experiences. Whatever the ethical considerations, I've been a patient for this stuff for well over a decade, and I've learned a little along the way. There are *so many* message boards dedicated to people swapping this kind of information after receiving year after year of useless treatments. When you're desparate, you don't care about anything but getting better. Sometimes - like I did - you'll make stupid decisions, but other times you'll just get nailed without little fault of your own. That's the stuff you pass on.

    I'm not telling him what to do. I'm not pretending to be a doctor. I'm someone who spent years feeling miserable when it probably didn't need to be that way.

    In the end, how is he going to make his decision? Is he going to read my email and then start prescribing meds to himself? Is he going to take my note to the pharmacy? Is he going to hypnotize his doctor?

    Well, these things are all possible, but I think it's far more likely that, were he to act on it (and, fortunately, it sounds like he's improving), then he'd go to a doc or a shrink with a few notes in the back of his head about what to avoid. Like, Effexor. That'd be a good word to have in the Avoid pile.

    Anyway, he's safe now.

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    W3bbo

    John Melville, MD wrote:
    I feel compelled to mention that just about all the advice about drugs in the prior post is extremely poor medical advice.  The reason he can't find a doctor to implement it is thay any doctor who did would (and should) lose his or her medical license.


    Not being a doctor, I'm no authority (but my sister's a final-year med student if that counts Wink ), but I agree.

    Anyway, would you say it's because pharma companies can advertise prescription drugs to the American public that as a nation you seem more "drugged up" to us brits, where such advertising is banned?

  • User profile image
    ScanIAm

    W3bbo wrote:
    
    John Melville, MD wrote:
    I feel compelled to mention that just about all the advice about drugs in the prior post is extremely poor medical advice.  The reason he can't find a doctor to implement it is thay any doctor who did would (and should) lose his or her medical license.


    Not being a doctor, I'm no authority (but my sister's a final-year med student if that counts ), but I agree.

    Anyway, would you say it's because pharma companies can advertise prescription drugs to the American public that as a nation you seem more "drugged up" to us brits, where such advertising is banned?


    And yet the Thames tested positive for coke?

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