Coffeehouse Thread

32 posts

IE8

Back to Forum: Coffeehouse
  • LaBomba

    It's not surprising, you could tell quite often that even when certain members of the IE team (except for Dave Massy) posted here on C9 by the tone of their posts, they weren't too interested in what anybody else had to say.

    They're hardcore geeks, and they have a narrow mindset on what they think is right, they're not really prepared to listen to others. They'll do what they think is best.

    When you don't have to earn the marketshare...I suppose that's how you'll behave. 

    Like a bunch of spoiled brats.

    The end.

    Somebody from the IE team care to respond...or are you guys too busy trying to copy Firefox?

  • PaoloM

    Do you seriously expect any kind of reply to that trash? Expressionless

  • DigitalDud

    I'm sure the IE team has done their market research.  Just because they're not blogging to the community at large, who are a bunch of jerks anyway, doesn't mean they don't know what people want in the browser.

  • Rossj

    DigitalDud wrote:
    I'm sure the IE team has done their market research.  Just because they're not blogging to the community at large, who are a bunch of jerks anyway, doesn't mean they don't know what people want in the browser.


    If they knew what people wanted, FF would have no marketshare, after all if you have the perfect browser already with your OS - why go to the trouble of changing to a third-party one?  And how can they know what people want if they don't communicate with them.

    Why make the pretence at creating blogs to be more transparent and communicative and then just close them up when you have shipped your product? People (devs specifically) DO want to know what is coming so that they can make strategic decisions for the future and at the moment NOBODY outside the IE team knows what is coming down the pipe.

    In defense of the IE team they have put up with sooo much cr@p and nasty comments that from a more personal angle I can 100% understand why nobody would want to put themselves through that.

    Dave, I'd be interested to know a little about how the IE team was structured - is there one single person who has the final decision on any particular feature, or is it more of a committee?

  • DMassy

    Rossj wrote:
    
    DigitalDud wrote:
    I'm sure the IE team has done their market research.  Just because they're not blogging to the community at large, who are a bunch of jerks anyway, doesn't mean they don't know what people want in the browser.


    If they knew what people wanted, FF would have no marketshare, after all if you have the perfect browser already with your OS - why go to the trouble of changing to a third-party one?  And how can they know what people want if they don't communicate with them.

    Why make the pretence at creating blogs to be more transparent and communicative and then just close them up when you have shipped your product? People (devs specifically) DO want to know what is coming so that they can make strategic decisions for the future and at the moment NOBODY outside the IE team knows what is coming down the pipe.

    In defense of the IE team they have put up with sooo much cr@p and nasty comments that from a more personal angle I can 100% understand why nobody would want to put themselves through that.

    Dave, I'd be interested to know a little about how the IE team was structured - is there one single person who has the final decision on any particular feature, or is it more of a committee?


    As with every group at Microsoft I've ever encountered groups of people are involved in nearly every decision. Clearly though there is someone at the top who has to make a decision if there is deadlock and may need to make tradeoffs about what resources are focused on what areas. They never make such decisions in isolation though.
    -Dave
    www.dmassy.com

  • Sven Groot

    Rossj wrote:
    
    DigitalDud wrote:
    I'm sure the IE team has done their market research.  Just because they're not blogging to the community at large, who are a bunch of jerks anyway, doesn't mean they don't know what people want in the browser.


    If they knew what people wanted, FF would have no marketshare

    That's not true, because it assumes that everybody wants the same thing.

  • jsampsonPC

    Sven Groot wrote:
    
    Rossj wrote:
    
    DigitalDud wrote:
    I'm sure the IE team has done their market research.  Just because they're not blogging to the community at large, who are a bunch of jerks anyway, doesn't mean they don't know what people want in the browser.


    If they knew what people wanted, FF would have no marketshare

    That's not true, because it assumes that everybody wants the same thing.


    True - and I don't want IE to mimic firefox, because then firefox will always be one step ahead. I want IE to start THINKING. Use the billion-dollar-brains the good Bill gave you!

  • esoteric

    jsampsonPC wrote:
    
    True - and I don't want IE to mimic firefox, because then firefox will always be one step ahead. I want IE to start THINKING. Use the billion-dollar-brains the good Bill gave you!


    They did.

    They came up with Avalon.

    They then resurrected the IE team from the dead, developed IE 7, developed Silverlight, and have new versions of IE and Silverlight in progress.

    Recent signs seem to indicate a more genuine interest in web standards. But I'm guessing HTML/CSS/DOM et al are also somewhat being seen as a "necessary evil", so to speak, as the main energy is put into Avalon and Silverlight, the true next generation technologies*. After all, they were developed because HTML/CSS/DOM etc were not up to the task.

    And I have to agree with that. It's a patchwork of technologies whereas Avalon and Silverlight are uniqely integrated and thought-out as a whole from the beginning.

    Avalon being the Windows premium experience and Silverlight being the cross-platform, cross-browser "web thingy".

    I wouldn't mind some more resources being put into browser development though. HTML and friends aren't going away anytime soon and we'd all like it to be a great experience while we use it. I've had a lot of crashes or freezes on last.fm, I'm hoping the crash reporting system will catch it and IE 8 will be more stable.

    And by the way Dave - how I miss your cool presentation videos. But your videos were a bit too cool for their own good.

    Wink

    * I'm looking forward to the next-next generation. I'm thinking it'll maybe be a functional language implementation with a high level of abstraction and device independence as well as specialization. We'll see when it arrives.

  • GoddersUK
  • GoddersUK

    Just found this.

    I haven't listened to the interview(which looks interesting) but the post is interesting.

  • Tom Servo

    PaoloM wrote:
    Do you seriously expect any kind of reply to that trash?

    What trash? Better not be saying the Massy quotes, because kool-aid and all that.

  • PaoloM

    Tom Servo wrote:
    
    PaoloM wrote:
    Do you seriously expect any kind of reply to that trash?

    What trash? Better not be saying the Massy quotes, because kool-aid and all that.

    My post was after LaBomba's one.

    And no disrespect for Dave at all, but the fact that someone leaves Microsoft doesn't make him automatically a saint or something.

    Again, this is not directed to Dave in this case, but I saw too many times people leaving a company and suddenly their cred going thru the roof even if they kept saying the same things...

  • littleguru

    I hope we get an easier way to develop extensions for IE8 Smiley Perhaps even in .NET - who knows - perhaps somebody solves this "one CLR version per process" thing... who knows...

  • Bas

    Agreed. Give me an "IE Extension" project in Visual Studio that lets me interact with the browser in C# through a nice set of classes. Of course, as Sven explained, the one CLR per process thing is  a stumbling block, but hey, they're Microsoft, they own all the technologies at play here. Make them work for us.

Comments closed

Comments have been closed since this content was published more than 30 days ago, but if you'd like to continue the conversation, please create a new thread in our Forums, or Contact Us and let us know.