Coffeehouse Thread

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Leopard

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  • User profile image
    Bas

    So, apparently Leopard reviews are trickling in... Has anyone heard what that super-secret new feature is, yet?

  • User profile image
    Ray6

    Bas wrote:
    So, apparently Leopard reviews are trickling in... Has anyone heard what that super-secret new feature is, yet?


    There isn't one ...

    But the reviews are pretty good nonetheless.

    Walt Mossberg gives a very honest appraisal, noting that the 300 'features' are pretty minor, but Apple has still delivered an upgrade that is faster and easier than Vista.

    Walt Mossberg wrote:

    I believe it builds on Apple's quality advantage over Windows. In my view, Leopard is better and faster than Vista, with a set of new features that make Macs even easier to use



    But it sounds like the transculent menu was a really bad idea. Lots of folk don't seem to like it; I have no idea whether or not you can switch it off.

    Still, looks like Apple has raised the bar again.


  • User profile image
    stevo_

    I don't think OS X is faster.. thats pretty unfair.. it may boot marginally faster.. but many a time at work I've sat waiting with the machine 'beach balling' over some trivial things, and it made me realize that the whole IO scheduling in Vista was a great move, something that Apple doesn't go near when doing updates to their OS, sure they add a lot of pretty things, and I even think the interaction for time machine is genius, but as far as making their core OS any better.. I just don't see it..

  • User profile image
    Lee_Dale

    Off to get mine tomorrow.

    Will reserve judgement until then Wink

  • User profile image
    Bas

    So.. what the hell happened to the super secret feature?

    Anyway, I'd love to give it a try to see what it's all about, but the 500 euro's I paid for Vista was bad enough. I don't want to pay twice that just to be able to try out a different OS.

  • User profile image
    Rossj

    Ray6 wrote:
    
    But it sounds like the transculent menu was a really bad idea. Lots of folk don't seem to like it; I have no idea whether or not you can switch it off.


    Apparently so, it is different when on the sides as well.



    Can I just make a point whilst I am posting in this thread? I know I'll probably get moaned at, or accused of being a fanboy.

    One version.
    Fives Licences.
    $199

    If there is one thing I'd like to see Microsoft do ... it is that.

  • User profile image
    W3bbo

    Rossj wrote:
    
    Ray6 wrote:
    
    But it sounds like the transculent menu was a really bad idea. Lots of folk don't seem to like it; I have no idea whether or not you can switch it off.


    Apparently so, it is different when on the sides as well.


    That's the dock, not the menubar.

    Rossj wrote:
    Can I just make a point whilst I am posting in this thread? I know I'll probably get moaned at, or accused of being a fanboy.


    It's not fanboyism if it's justified. Apple's product looks to have:
    • Better "quality" (Windows is a Vauxhall, OSX is a Mercedes), whether it's perceived or not, but Apple puts a lot of work into the UX
    • Better stability
    • Better licensing agreements (then again, OSX isn't their main moneyspinner)

    Rossj wrote:
    If there is one thing I'd like to see Microsoft do ... it is that.


    Apple's certainly giving them a run for their money. Give it until Windows 8 to see the same level of quality from Microsoft, methinks.

  • User profile image
    Rossj

    W3bbo wrote:
    Apple's certainly giving them a run for their money. Give it until Windows 8 to see the same level of quality from Microsoft, methinks.


    Which is what? 2010? 11?

    And meanwhile Apple do more of this ..

  • User profile image
    Bas

    Is that a reference to the amount of users?

    I kid, I kid.. Tongue Out

  • User profile image
    GoddersUK

    I could see Apple using that storyline in an add actualy- the few against the many.

  • User profile image
    Ray6

    Rossj wrote:
    

    Can I just make a point whilst I am posting in this thread? I know I'll probably get moaned at, or accused of being a fanboy.

    One version.
    Fives Licences.
    $199

    If there is one thing I'd like to see Microsoft do ... it is that.


    Don't see why anyone would call you a fanboy. Windows folk have been saying that since before Vista was released.

    As far as I'm concerned, there only needs to be two versions of Vista.


    Basic for low spec machines.
    Ultimate for high end machines.


    The simplicity of having only a few choices when dealing with consumers is something that Apple understands and Microsoft unfortunately, never will.

    Do you remember when Apple had 14 different Macs on sale at the same time? The first thing that Jobs did when he returned, was dump ten of them.

    Another small point as well; Time Machine.

    Yes, it is nasty to look at, but I'm not sure that its inability to use a local disk is quite as bad as folk make out.

    Think consumer. Think folk who don't really want to understand IT best practices.  Apple is  simply saying:

    'No ifs, no buts. You must back up to drive that is not inside your Mac. Otherwise, you're just wasting your time.'







  • User profile image
    Sven Groot

    Ray6 wrote:
    The simplicity of having only a few choices when dealing with consumers is something that Apple understands and Microsoft unfortunately, never will.

    I don't think it's that they don't understand that. The problem is that they understand the fact that price segmentation increases revenue a little too well.

  • User profile image
    Ray6

    W3bbo wrote:
    

    Rossj wrote:
    Can I just make a point whilst I am posting in this thread? I know I'll probably get moaned at, or accused of being a fanboy.


    It's not fanboyism if it's justified. Apple's product looks to have:
    • Better "quality" (Windows is a Vauxhall, OSX is a Mercedes), whether it's perceived or not, but Apple puts a lot of work into the UX
    • Better stability
    • Better licensing agreements (then again, OSX isn't their main moneyspinner)


    Still disagree about the stability part, especially when it comes to running several heavyweight apps all at once.

    I think the main difference is that when Apple puts out a product, they shout out about it and are proud of it.

    When Microsoft releases a product, they sneak it out the back door with an apology taped to its box ....


  • User profile image
    Ray6

    Sven Groot wrote:
    
    Ray6 wrote:
    The simplicity of having only a few choices when dealing with consumers is something that Apple understands and Microsoft unfortunately, never will.

    I don't think it's that they don't understand that. The problem is that they understand the fact that price segmentation increases revenue a little too well.


    Perhaps they could try to increase revenues by applying the same attention to detail that Apple does?

    Dunno. Just a thought.


  • User profile image
    Rossj

    Ray6 wrote:
    
    Still disagree about the stability part, especially when it comes to running several heavyweight apps all at once.


    Define heavyweight?


    Ray6 wrote:
    
    I think the main difference is that when Apple puts out a product, they shout out about it and are proud of it.

    When Microsoft releases a product, they sneak it out the back door with an apology taped to its box ....


    Which is just bizarre, sure Apple have the advantage of having a smi-clean break from legacy MacOS (thanks heavens, I hated it) but I guarantee there are people inside Microsoft who think the same way that the Apple engineers do - my concern is why they don't get heard, or they get swamped in committee. I wish there was a small group of people inside Microsoft who had the last say on any particular feature and could stomp all over any group with impunity trying to enforce some consistency - Microsoft should have tried to hire Avie Tevanian when he left Apple.*

    I had a little hope when they hired Paolo, because he says what he thinks, and he understands what is wrong with the software Microsoft used to ship - now all we need to do is get him promoted to a position where he can do something about it Smiley


    * Avie's company was bought by Microsoft earlier this year, but no sign of Avie near the Windows team Sad

  • User profile image
    Bas

    Rossj wrote:
    
    One version.
    Fives Licences.
    $199


    By the way, those are good points. I would like to point out though, that new users have to buy the hardware, too. Just like with PC's, of course, but then you can also get a $200 OEM version of Vista, so the difference is gone.

    Still, I'd love to see retail prices of Windows drop. And the five license deal is, well, ideal.

  • User profile image
    Ray6

    Rossj wrote:
    
    Ray6 wrote:
    
    Still disagree about the stability part, especially when it comes to running several heavyweight apps all at once.


    Define heavyweight?



    PhotoShop and just about anything else.

    I've always found multitasking on Windows a bit less of a chore, and when I crash explorer, it comes back. If I crash the Finder, I usually have to restart ... Sad

    Rossj wrote:
    


    Ray6 wrote:
    
    I think the main difference is that when Apple puts out a product, they shout out about it and are proud of it.

    When Microsoft releases a product, they sneak it out the back door with an apology taped to its box ....

    Which is just bizarre, sure Apple have the advantage of having a smi-clean break from legacy MacOS (thanks heavens, I hated it) but I guarantee there are people inside Microsoft who think the same way that the Apple engineers do - my concern is why they don't get heard, or they get swamped in committee. I wish there was a small group of people inside Microsoft who had the last say on any particular feature and could stomp all over any group with impunity trying to enforce some consistency - Microsoft should have tried to hire Avie Tevanian when he left Apple.*


    Microsoft's business model is based on reaction. Apple's is based on revolution. Apple has to fight for every percentage of market share it gains; Microsoft has to do very little to maintain the market share it has.

    Rossj wrote:
    
    * Avie's company was bought by Microsoft earlier this year, but no sign of Avie near the Windows team


    I never knew that .... Expressionless

  • User profile image
    CyberGeek

    Just to toss in a few comments:

    In regards to the top-secret features, basically any Leopard feature announced after WWDC '06 was one of the top-secret features. This includes things like the new Finder with Cover Flow and Quick Look, and the search box in the help menu.

    The transparent menu bar seems very odd to me. The original release of OS X had a lot of transparency in it. It was a pretty effect, but having any noisy images (like a busy wallpaper or text) underneath a transparent element made the element much more difficult to read. A paper company released a statement to the effect of, "We spend a large amount of money every year trying to find new ways to make our paper more opaque, and now Apple is spending extra CPU cycles making things more transparent." Over successive releases, OS X used less and less transparency. Apple has now apparently forgotten the lessons of the past and done an about face. On the plus side, it seems that they now do a Vista-esque blurring of the image underneath. Still, from a usability perspective it would be better to just have the whole thing be opaque.

    Finally, a bit about performance. In an interesting contrast to Windows releases, every release of OS X has tended to perform better than the previous release did on the same hardware. Reports from users who have already used Leopard (either by a shipment arriving early, by being a developer, or through a less than legitimate means) suggests that Leopard continues this trend.

    About the more specific beach-balling issue, I've found that, more prominently so than in Windows, performance in OS X can be very directly tied to your RAM. As long as everything that's running fits into RAM, performance is great. Once you have too many apps running, however, and your overall RAM usage goes above the amount of RAM in your system, performance suffers drastically as the OS starts paging memory between RAM and disk. Mac OS X Tiger takes up about 450 megs of RAM without any apps running (I think, I found that amount by opening up Activity Monitor and subtracting the RAM usage of my open apps from the total RAM usage). On a 512 meg system, you're going to be beach-balling like crazy with only a few apps open. On my 1 gig MacBook, performance is great for most of my work (with a browser, text editor, and FTP app open), but suffers when I do browser compatibility testing (which involves up to four different browsers open at once, including IE running in Windows under Parallels). On my 2 gig iMac, I pretty much have to deliberately open as many apps as possible to make the system start beach-balling, none of my day-to-day activities cause problems.

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