Coffeehouse Thread

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UX Guide and .NET Framework

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  • User profile image
    Klaus Enevoldsen

    Microsoft has released a beta of their UX Guidelines for Windows Vista. It is a great guide and it has a lot of great advice. Those 600+ pages are easily read. J Lots of screen shots of good and bad ways to create GUI.

    I want to follow those guidelines!

    But I can’t!

    Because the controls that are used in Vista are not a part of the .NET framework. I could create the controls myself, but I like RAD and making a lot of user controls to follow the guidelines is not RAD.

    I guess I could buy the controls from a third part company. But I don’t want to!

    This is what I want:

    1)      When Microsoft releases a new OS with new guidelines, all ordinary controls that they use should be included in the .NET framework delivered with the OS.

    2)      When Microsoft releases a new version of Office I want the controls that they use (so that when I create applications that interact with Office, I can create a consistent UI that follow that written in the UX guide).

    3)      Faster delivery of the Guidelines when the OS is released (the UX guidelines is not yet completed and Vista is almost a year old).

    Any feedback? Big Smile

  • User profile image
    littleguru

    Yeah... i wonder when they come to the .NET world.

  • User profile image
    Dr Herbie

    Klaus Enevoldsen wrote:
    

    Microsoft has released a beta of their UX Guidelines for Windows Vista.




    Where?  Do we have a link?

    Herbie

  • User profile image
    blowdart

    Dr Herbie wrote:
    
    Klaus Enevoldsen wrote:
    

    Microsoft has released a beta of their UX Guidelines for Windows Vista.




    Where?  Do we have a link?

    Herbie


    http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa511258.aspx

  • User profile image
    JChung2006

    Vista controls are available to Win32 programmers.  The problem with including Vista controls with a .NET framework release is that the framework has to run on operating systems other than Windows Vista, namely Windows XP.

  • User profile image
    Klaus Enevoldsen

    JChung2006 wrote:
    

    Vista controls are available to Win32 programmers.  The problem with including Vista controls with a .NET framework release is that the framework has to run on operating systems other than Windows Vista, namely Windows XP.



    Would it be possible to render the controls in XP and use the native ones in Vista?

  • User profile image
    JChung2006

    Klaus Enevoldsen wrote:
    Would it be possible to render the controls in XP and use the native ones in Vista?

    Microsoft went down the "render the controls in legacy OS" route before with the VB runtime libraries several years ago.  It was unpleasant.  I remember ListView and TreeView columns looking and working like crap (redundant borders, column resizing behaviors broken, etc).  For a more recent example, I recall a Niner (Rossj, I think?) expressing displeasure with the pain that ugly WPF rendering in XP was causing him.

    I think they're looking forward, not backward. Maybe we'll see Vista-style controls in the next version of the .NET framework a few years from now (Windows 7 timeframe). That version probably won't be required to support XP.

  • User profile image
    Minh

    Rule 4: Use icons and graphics consistent with the Windows Vista style and quality



    As of VS2005, MS still hasn't shipped an editor that can do true-color icons, or bitmaps w/ alpha channels.

    Does anyone know if 2008 will have that?

  • User profile image
    Klaus Enevoldsen

    JChung2006 wrote:
    
    Klaus Enevoldsen wrote:
    Would it be possible to render the controls in XP and use the native ones in Vista?

    Microsoft went down the "render the controls in legacy OS" route before with the VB runtime libraries several years ago.  It was unpleasant.  I remember ListView and TreeView columns looking and working like crap (redundant borders, column resizing behaviors broken, etc).  For a more recent example, I recall a Niner (Rossj, I think?) expressing displeasure with the pain that ugly WPF rendering in XP was causing him.

    I think they're looking forward, not backward. Maybe we'll see Vista-style controls in the next version of the .NET framework a few years from now (Windows 7 timeframe). That version probably won't be required to support XP.



    Would it be possible to create an assembly "Microsoft.Windows.Forms.Vista" that would include the new controls and throw a NotImplementedException if you tried to execute it in < Vista?

  • User profile image
    W3bbo

    Minh wrote:
    Does anyone know if 2008 will have that?


    VS2008 does, but real icon designers have plugins for Photoshop and never touch VS's graphic resource editor (which is a glorified paint.exe anyway)

  • User profile image
    wkempf

    W3bbo wrote:
    
    Minh wrote:
    Does anyone know if 2008 will have that?


    VS2008 does, but real icon designers have plugins for Photoshop and never touch VS's graphic resource editor (which is a glorified paint.exe anyway)


    True, but irrelevant.  After the designer is done, the developer has to plug it into the application, and older VS incarnations could destroy all the work the designer did real quickly if the developer wasn't careful.  I've always been baffled by the fact that VS did so poorly in this area.

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