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View Thread: Hand Over Your Keys Or Else.
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    dahat wrote:
    SecretSoftware wrote:
    You cannot really legislate against technology. Period.

    They aren't legislating against technology, they are not declaring the technology illegal, they are simply saying that you must comply with a legal demand for access (ie 'we have a warrant, open the safe').

    SecretSoftware wrote:
    The hacking underworld have, and will always outsmart everything technologically speaking.

    So... if criminals who choose to use weapons during the commission of a crime will always do so be it illegal or not... we should not have it be illegal?

    SecretSoftware wrote:
    what I think is , how are they going to enforce that law?

    Same way they do today, by arresting those who do not comply. Seems pretty simple doesn't it?

    SecretSoftware wrote:
    What does this say about privacy in the digital world we live in today?

    This is little different than the world we live in today. If the police have cause to search your home they will... should you refuse to let them in the door, they will break it down, only here instead of having the means to break down the door they require your assistance in getting in.

    Why would anyone assist in their own rape? I mean that is like asking a woman who is about to get raped to assist the rapist.

    There are very specific situations where the law has to win. But in Law we have something called:

    A person cannot testify or be compelled to testify against themselves. (that is why you have the right to remain silent, when you are being arrested).

    dahat wrote:

    SecretSoftware wrote:
    But these laws are fundamentally illegal, because they break the law of privacy that exists in most democratic constitutions.

    Psst... the UK is not a democracy (nor is the US, but that's another post), they are a constitutional monarchy and their constitution is quite lacking with regards to enumerated limits of governmental power the way the US's is... as such there is less of a ‘right to privacy' there than there is here. Know why? They don't have a codified written constitution!

    If the UK is not a democracy then what is it doing over in IRAQ? are you saying that MR Blair is trying to give the IRAQI people something that his own country does not already enjoy?
    If the US is not a democracy then what is the US exactly? A fascist republic?

    I think you need to get out more, better yet ask around which country your living in. You might be surprised in to find out that your living in  some forest in the amazon.

    dahat wrote:

    More so, had you actually read the US Constitution... (you know, the little thing you claim has a section that makes "defaming a minority group of people's religious system" illegal) you'd run into something we call the 4th amendment which says:

    United States Constitution: Fourth Amendment wrote:
    The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

    In short it means that at least in the US such a law would only be applicable with a warrant, which makes sense. As it is today in the US a judge can issue a warrant for the seizure of all PC's and data you own... but without the ability to decrypt the data, the seizure is almost worthless... making the requirement of surrendering of the keys logical... hell, refusing to turn over keys in such a case could be viewed similarly to actively preventing the execution of a search warrant and as your friend Andrew Mayer learned... it's good to follow the legal orders of the police.

    Read up on "HATE SPEECH, Character Assassination, Defamation Laws", these laws keep organizations like "The Anti-Defamation League" relevant in the Court systems.

    dahat wrote:

    SecretSoftware wrote:
    I want to know what would happen to a British citizen who has a file that is encrypted, and they lost the key to decrypt it? Is it fair to jail these people for something that they cannot decrypt?

    I guess you didn't read the second story you linked to which said:

    The Second Article wrote:
    This law is applicable only to data physically stored in the United Kingdom and does not allow the U.K. government to intercept encrypted materials in transit.

    As for what happens if someone loses the key... same thing that happens today if the police come looking for evidence which a subject claims no longer to have (access to)... they (the subject) hope and pray that they can prove to the satisfaction of the authorities that they are telling the truth.

    LOL. Absence of evidence is not evidence of guilt. The onus of proof is on the prosecutes to show beyond a shadow of a doubt that evidence exists and it points in such and such direction.

    So , intimidating the public, will not work. Remember the public elect the leaders, and the leaders work as the public pleases.

    Meanwhile, Encryption is the technology by which we maintain our right to privacy, and no one, I mean no one, can take that away.

    What should remain a secret, should remain just like that. The founding fathers made that point clear in the document entitled "The Constitution of the United States of America".

    Now you can sing and dance to bend or redefine the laws as written, but that will not eat with the people of this republic.

    Lastly, Do you suppord the existance of Israel even though it was founded using terror against British soldiers and local arabs who were serving in Palestine before 1948? Do you support groups like the Irgun

    Does that make you a terrorist supporting 9ner? I think yes.