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Long's Longhorn Screenshot

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  • User profile image
    jamie

    from www.istartedsomething.com

    The “double-decker” Windows taskbar


    I had never seen this screen before ... parts of it.  It reminds me of all the things that got changed by committee - when they were so cool before..

    examples:

    - The big back button - and small forward - shows only if needed
      Committee:  Put both on screen - at all times - at same size

    - The invisible address bar - helps get rid of rectangle/bar overload
      Committee: Make it visible at all times - even if it make IE look like 12 bars in a row

    - The redish - expandable top options bar
       Committee: Make them unexpandable, make them all puke green, make the selected preview pic un-3d and flat, add yet another bar at the bottom

    - Top right preview icons (either open apps, or related - not sure - looked cool though. Also the top menu bar is all one piece
      Committee: make the top bar the same as xp - but make it go black if mazimized, remove the cool graphical icons - add more text to UI

    - Show albums as album covers
      Commitee: Put album covers coming out of folders so you can only see half the cover

    - Startbar -  it is kind of wacky - but the concept was there: Use a full width panel - not a little flyout / integrate sidebar - make ONE metaphor for controling win UI not 2
     - Committee: put it back like XP, remove all the icons, make text small, remove user name, remove all references to MY computer (as it is now ms's computer


    sigh...

  • User profile image
    BruceMorgan

    Also from istartedsomething


    "At the same time, people who look at these concepts can also be quick to criticize Vista. But the reality is, Vista is easily the highest quality user experience of Windows ever shipped. And that is the direct result of the same designers who put in years of work into Longhorn/Vista. Sure, some ideas had to be sacrificed but they’ve really pushed the boundaries of the Windows user experience and that’s just not for this release, but many releases to come."
  • User profile image
    kettch

    I guess what jamie is really asking for (slipping into the mode of give the customer what they need, not explicitely what they ask for) is a customizable "*bar" experience. Let us decide what tool widgets go where.

    Make the entire taskbar more like the sidebar. Make everything a gadget, including things like running programs, system trays, clocks, etc. Gnome and KDE have a lot of support for a vast array of taskbar widgets, however, it would be nice to see this done in a way that feels a little slicker.

    For once I'm in agreement with jamie. Frankly, I'm sure I'd hate most of how jamie would set up his system and vice versa. However, a flexible system for configuring, displaying, and positioning basic operating system tools would rock...hard.

  • User profile image
    TiAdiMundo

    It does look better because they didn't copy the rounded Aqua buttons from the Mac for the command bar and it is very clean but this concept uses too much space. The style reminds me of the Microsoft Max project so hopefully we will see more like this in the future?!

  • User profile image
    DoomBringer

    jamie wrote:
    from www.istartedsomething.com

    I had never seen this screen before ... parts of it.  It reminds me of all the things that got changed by committee - when they were so cool before..

    examples:

    - The big back button - and small forward - shows only if needed
      Committee:  Put both on screen - at all times - at same size

    - The invisible address bar - helps get rid of rectangle/bar overload
      Committee: Make it visible at all times - even if it make IE look like 12 bars in a row

    - The redish - expandable top options bar
       Committee: Make them unexpandable, make them all puke green, make the selected preview pic un-3d and flat, add yet another bar at the bottom

    - Top right preview icons (either open apps, or related - not sure - looked cool though. Also the top menu bar is all one piece
      Committee: make the top bar the same as xp - but make it go black if mazimized, remove the cool graphical icons - add more text to UI

    - Show albums as album covers
      Commitee: Put album covers coming out of folders so you can only see half the cover

    - Startbar -  it is kind of wacky - but the concept was there: Use a full width panel - not a little flyout / integrate sidebar - make ONE metaphor for controling win UI not 2
     - Committee: put it back like XP, remove all the icons, make text small, remove user name, remove all references to MY computer (as it is now ms's computer


    sigh...

    I'm not sure I'm seeing a lot of this.  That start menu looks ugly compared to the new one (especially the ugly "Start" text, XP looked better than that), and there are plenty of expandable widgets. 

  • User profile image
    magicalclick

    I think the sidebar in Vista will just do the same. It would be cool to customize "window" as well. Like put different back buttons and so on.

    But if you ask me, I really hope the task bar can use thumb view instead of text, don't have to be live. When you on mouse over, it expend and become live.

    Leaving WM on 5/2018 if no apps, no dedicated billboards where I drive, no Store name.
    Last modified
  • User profile image
    kettch

    creditcard wrote:
    
    BruceMorgan wrote:
    

    Also from istartedsomething


    "At the same time, people who look at these concepts can also be quick to criticize Vista. But the reality is, Vista is easily the highest quality user experience of Windows ever shipped. And that is the direct result of the same designers who put in years of work into Longhorn/Vista. Sure, some ideas had to be sacrificed but they’ve really pushed the boundaries of the Windows user experience and that’s just not for this release, but many releases to come."


    No offense, but what exactly is new "UI wise" in Vista? I've been using it for months. What is different? It has a taskbar, a clock, a start menu, and windows. The taskbar is black instead of blue, the start menu button is a circle instead of a rectangle. The window decoration is transparent instead of blue. That start menu has some minor differences, but is still the same general layout as Windows XP (which actually radically changed the Start Menu from Windows 2000). I am not trying to frazzle you, but what exactly is different?  What is the killer feature of Vista?



    What's the difference between a Model T and a new car? They both have four tires, an engine, a steering wheel, etc... What's 2008's killer feature?

    I start missing stuff, even if I'm just using virtual machine running XP.

  • User profile image
    kettch

    creditcard wrote:
    Right you dismissed the question instead of answering it, despite your last sentence implying there is an answer to the question.


    I could also be trying to get you to prove that nothing has changed.

  • User profile image
    DCMonkey

    I've added another perspective to your examples:

    jamie wrote:
    from www.istartedsomething.com


    I had never seen this screen before ... parts of it.  It reminds me of all the things that got changed by committee - when they were so cool before..

    examples:

    - The big back button - and small forward - shows only if needed
      Committee:  Put both on screen - at all times - at same size

    User Testing: Users say the translucent titlebars are too big. Shrink the buttons down to fit in a smaller title bar.

    - The invisible address bar - helps get rid of rectangle/bar overload
      Committee: Make it visible at all times - even if it make IE look like 12 bars in a row

    User Testing: Users don't know you can click on the breadcrumbs to do stuff. They're also unaware that you can click in the empty space to the right to get an address text box. Add visual affordances to highlight these capabilities.

    - The redish - expandable top options bar
       Committee: Make them unexpandable, make them all puke green, make the selected preview pic un-3d and flat, add yet another bar at the bottom

    Project Manager: We can't get the new task oriented framework we planned for Longhorn's Explorer done in this post reset reality. Just put the critical tasks that the current Explorer supports into a smaller toolbar or dump them in the Organize menu with everything else.

    - Top right preview icons (either open apps, or related - not sure - looked cool though. Also the top menu bar is all one piece
      Committee: make the top bar the same as xp - but make it go black if mazimized, remove the cool graphical icons - add more text to UI

    User Testing: Nobody has any idea what these do*. Remove them.

    - Show albums as album covers
      Commitee: Put album covers coming out of folders so you can only see half the cover

    User Testing: No-one seemed to notice the change as most people use WMP to manage thier music.

    - Startbar -  it is kind of wacky - but the concept was there: Use a full width panel - not a little flyout / integrate sidebar - make ONE metaphor for controling win UI not 2
     - Committee: put it back like XP, remove all the icons, make text small, remove user name, remove all references to MY computer (as it is now ms's computer

    User Testing: Users complain that it uses too much screen real estate, especially for widescreen users where there is excess horzontal space. Can't let windows maximize over infobar area as they would also cover taskbar. Putting info bar on the side of the screen allows this.

    Program Manager: We can't get this into Vista on anyways because it relies on Avalon and WinFS. Cut it.

    Some programmer: Hey, we could hack together something based on javascript and the IE renderer like Dashboard or Konfabulator. and get it into Vista on time.

    sigh...


    *Seriously, what where these for?

  • User profile image
    kettch

    creditcard wrote:
    
    kettch wrote:
    
    creditcard wrote:
    Right you dismissed the question instead of answering it, despite your last sentence implying there is an answer to the question.


    I could also be trying to get you to prove that nothing has changed.


    I don't see many changes. I'd like to hear what your story is on the killer features of Vista.


    You are right that there aren't any revolutionary UI changes. However, there are refinements such as being able to search from anywhere, saved searches, the details pane, live thumbnails, redesigned start menu, and dynamic filtering in windows explorer columns. Those are just a handful of the little things that I've become rather attached to in the last year and half.

    Many things I don't even think about until I'm back in XP for some reason.

  • User profile image
    TiAdiMundo

    creditcard wrote:
    
    No offense, but what exactly is new "UI wise" in Vista? I've been using it for months. What is different? It has a taskbar, a clock, a start menu, and windows. The taskbar is black instead of blue, the start menu button is a circle instead of a rectangle. The window decoration is transparent instead of blue. That start menu has some minor differences, but is still the same general layout as Windows XP (which actually radically changed the Start Menu from Windows 2000). I am not trying to frazzle you, but what exactly is different?  What is the killer feature of Vista?


    No menus in Windows Explorer and other Vista programs! Most people didn't realize that this is the most radical change in Windows' UI since the introduction of the Start menu. Maybe because a lot of them just turned on the classic menu.

    It's now a really smart, task-based design: Taskbar shows you every task thats running, start new tasks over the Start menu and choose contextual tasks from the new Command bar.

  • User profile image
    kettch

    TiAdiMundo wrote:
    
    creditcard wrote:
    
    No offense, but what exactly is new "UI wise" in Vista? I've been using it for months. What is different? It has a taskbar, a clock, a start menu, and windows. The taskbar is black instead of blue, the start menu button is a circle instead of a rectangle. The window decoration is transparent instead of blue. That start menu has some minor differences, but is still the same general layout as Windows XP (which actually radically changed the Start Menu from Windows 2000). I am not trying to frazzle you, but what exactly is different?  What is the killer feature of Vista?


    No menus in Windows Explorer and other Vista programs! Most people didn't realize that this is the most radical change in Windows' UI since the introduction of the Start menu. Maybe because a lot of them just turned on the classic menu.

    It's now a really smart, task-based design: Taskbar shows you every task thats running, start new tasks over the Start menu and choose contextual tasks from the new Command bar.


    Good point! That's one of things I don't notice until I'm in XP. In fact, I haven't found any reason to ever pull up the menu bar, everything I need has always been right there in a logical alternative.

    The whole File, Edit, View, etc... thing was getting lame anyway. It sucks that every little app out there thinks that they need to have the "standard loadout" of menu items. Just use simple contextual items and most of your tasks will always be accessable.

  • User profile image
    TiAdiMundo

    DCMonkey wrote:
    I've added another perspective to your examples:

    jamie wrote:
    from www.istartedsomething.com

    ...

    - The redish - expandable top options bar
       Committee: Make them unexpandable, make them all puke green, make the selected preview pic un-3d and flat, add yet another bar at the bottom

    Project Manager: We can't get the new task oriented framework we planned for Longhorn's Explorer done in this post reset reality. Just put the critical tasks that the current Explorer supports into a smaller toolbar or dump them in the Organize menu with everything else.






    In this concept it's difficult to tell what you can click or not. Commands are in different places with a different style (like print and burn) and a lot of functionality isn't there (reload, help, search...). In Vista it's easy to tell what is clickable: these elements appear to be "3D" (like taskbar and the command bar in Vista's apps) or it's just blue text (= hyperlinks).

  • User profile image
    TiAdiMundo

    kettch wrote:
    
    The whole File, Edit, View, etc... thing was getting lame anyway. It sucks that every little app out there thinks that they need to have the "standard loadout" of menu items. Just use simple contextual items and most of your tasks will always be accessable.


    Exactly. Who wants to print an mp3 file? Ohh whait, you can "do" that in Leopard Tongue Out

  • User profile image
    BlackTiger

    BruceMorgan wrote:
    ...But the reality is, Vista is easily the highest quality user experience of Windows ever shipped. ...


    WHICH ONE REALITY?!?!? MS marketing reality? Vista'a UX is just a DISASTER! "Windows Explorer" never had so many bugs and glitches before. Crashes, amnesias and randomizations in folder views, unhandled exceptions (aka "COM Surrogate stopped working", craches during new "folder view" application), lost functions and buttons in toolbar (mysterious disappearance of "New Folder", removed "Copy to"/"Move to" actions, etc). Some new definition of "highest quality"... [6]

    If you stumbled and fell down, it doesn't mean yet, that you're going in the wrong direction.
    Last modified
  • User profile image
    GEN3RIC

    jamie wrote:
    from www.istartedsomething.com


    examples:

    - The big back button - and small forward - shows only if needed
      Committee:  Put both on screen - at all times - at same size

    - The invisible address bar - helps get rid of rectangle/bar overload
      Committee: Make it visible at all times - even if it make IE look like 12 bars in a row

    - The redish - expandable top options bar
       Committee: Make them unexpandable, make them all puke green, make the selected preview pic un-3d and flat, add yet another bar at the bottom

    - Top right preview icons (either open apps, or related - not sure - looked cool though. Also the top menu bar is all one piece
      Committee: make the top bar the same as xp - but make it go black if mazimized, remove the cool graphical icons - add more text to UI

    - Show albums as album covers
      Commitee: Put album covers coming out of folders so you can only see half the cover

    - Startbar -  it is kind of wacky - but the concept was there: Use a full width panel - not a little flyout / integrate sidebar - make ONE metaphor for controling win UI not 2
     - Committee: put it back like XP, remove all the icons, make text small, remove user name, remove all references to MY computer (as it is now ms's computer


    sigh...

    This looks more like a Windows Media Player concept than Explorer.  I don't see Folders for icons in my WMP or Zune software..

  • User profile image
    stevo_

    No offence but I prefer how Vista looks, those early concepts aren't nearly as well thought out, their essentially fun ideas that aren't well executable..

    I'm so glad it changed to how it is, because to me; the difference between a lot of the details in the concept is the difference between the UI of linux distros compared to OS X, Vista and even XP..

    There are some nice ideas in longhorn concepts, like a more capital use of animation, but I can already see an outrage with the kind of people who strip their OS nearly back to 'DOS' for the 'Ultimate Pure Experience'..

    I used to have an IGN account (because I'm somewhat into my gaming), and the sheer amount of technical stupidity that goes on there is hideous.. I'm talking about threads where kids essentially say 'pimp my system' and various 'tech god kids' come along and tell them to install RAM-BOOSTER, run registry optimizers, uninstall half their OS, disable nearly every service and startup process just so they can get that extra 2 seconds off their boot times..

    Saying that; I'd say its sensible for Microsoft's next OS to incorporate more animation..

  • User profile image
    Bas

    I love the top options bar. The back/forward button thing is pretty neat, too.

    jamie wrote:

    - The invisible address bar - helps get rid of rectangle/bar overload
      Committee: Make it visible at all times - even if it make IE look like 12 bars in a row


    So, wait.. People complain that the menu bar in IE7 is hidden by default, but now they want the address bar, which is far more useful than an old fashioned menu bar, to be hidden?

    Right..


    jamie wrote:


    remove all references to MY computer (as it is now ms's computer


    Sorry, but this is just whining.

    creditcard wrote:
    No offense, but what exactly is new "UI wise" in Vista? I've been using it for months. What is different? It has a taskbar, a clock, a start menu, and windows. The taskbar is black instead of blue, the start menu button is a circle instead of a rectangle. The window decoration is transparent instead of blue. That start menu has some minor differences, but is still the same general layout as Windows XP (which actually radically changed the Start Menu from Windows 2000). I am not trying to frazzle you, but what exactly is different?  What is the killer feature of Vista?


    No menus by default, search everywhere, breadcrumb address bar (with multiple 'ups'), better file renaming, better alt+tab (with previews rather than just icons), treeview start menu, and start menu search are my favorite new features (that I really miss now in XP), but there are many more to be found.

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