Coffeehouse Thread

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  • User profile image
    cloricus

    What I think of this site.

    The following is from another thread.
    "This site will be on /. very shortly. ... Too bad the place will likely suck [because of the flames] for a couple days, as I think this site might be a good idea."

    Now I've come here from the slashdot link thinking "peh, just another m$ attempt at pretending it is a good company and trying to make people ignore all it's problems" though when I got here all of that was wiped. Why? Most things just don't work (I am using Mozilla 1.7b), the left side bar is not readable, the media applets do not run, the main menu has bad boundaries, the forums are hard to read and to add to it most things overlap which is just to name some things from a list. So I open it in IE6 and as I expected it worked. My thoughts on this? "Great way to show the world you really want them to think you are open by forcing them to use IE." Though to be fair and not sound like a "linux hippie" I opened it in Opera 7(.23) and did not have any more luck than I did using my default browser, this held true after opening it in two other browsers.

    So, so far I still think my first thought but on top of that I also think the webmaster needs to visit http://validator.w3.org/check?verbose=1&uri=http%3A//channel9.msdn.com/ .

    I think this site could be good and I would probably like to visit it but first I'd rather it was usable, does any one know when these problems might be fixed? In the mean time I think the line “the place will likely suck” holds true not for the people in it but for the bad way it has been coded.

  • User profile image
    gapman

    Ok first off I would like to say I agree with what has been said.  You can see this by my screenshot here,
    http://windohs.net/linked_images/ch9.jpg

    I believe the site could look better for Mozilla users.  I don't use Mozilla on a daily basis, I use Avant Browser which is just a shell over IE so everything looks good to me when I view the site normally.  It is just when I am in FireBird testing things which is where I notice the problems.

    From this aspect though I do know how it can be difficult to code for multiple browsers because I have done it with many sites but I will say it is worth if you take the time because then "ALL" of your users will be happy. Wink 

  • User profile image
    vanlandw

    I read this site though a RSS reader and it looks alright. 

  • User profile image
    lenn

    Gents -

    Thanks for the feedback.  We hear you loud and clear.  Like everything in software, prioritization drives shipping, and he who ships, gets to ship again.

    We built the site for the Microsoft developer community, our pri 1 was IE.  We did limited testing on other browsers.  We spent more time on good RSS support instead. Now that we are live, we will continue to invest and improve.

    This team really is 5 guys. We used shared source software to build the site, and we did it in record time.  An unfortunate side effect was that the HTML that ASP.NET Forums generates doesn't meet the validator.  

    We understand you want choice, I do too.  Don't give up on me just yet, hang tight Wink 

  • User profile image
    Simon

    works fine for me in Firefox, what are you guys going on about? Perplexed  

  • User profile image
    cloricus

    lenn wrote:
    An unfortunate side effect was that the HTML that ASP.NET Forums generates doesn't meet the validator.  
    We understand you want choice, I do too.  Don't give up on me just yet, hang tight Wink


    <>If you would like I can fix a lot of the visible errors as I have been looking over the code for a bit and they look easy, in fact I will email you the fix for the left side as it is really bugging me.

    As for it being trouble to code for all the major platforms (gapman) it isn't hard once you get the hang of it, and learn how to code for all IE's down falls (boarders anyone?) it just takes practice and is easiest if you write the site while constantly referring to all three platforms to check. Smiley

  • User profile image
    gapman

    cloricus wrote:
    As for it being trouble to code for all the major platforms (gapman) it isn't hard once you get the hang of it, and learn how to code for all IE's down falls (boarders anyone?) it just takes practice and is easiest if you write the site while constantly referring to all three platforms to check. Smiley


    I didn't say it was hard for me, I have been doing it long enought where it isn't a problem for me.  I was just saying it could be "difficult" in general to those that don't really understand.

  • User profile image
    elaine

    People and nations will act rationally when all other options have been exhuausted.

    Personally I don't write / publish html that isn't valid.

    Y haven't heard that particular mantra:

    "Like everything in software, prioritization drives shipping, and he who ships, gets to ship again."

    So standards, reliability, security .... all take a back seat to shipping.

    Don't get me wrong I understand it, I've only ever worked at R&D-and-market driven companies. If your best route to profitability is sustained rapid growth then the pressure to continue to do new stuff is incredible.

    Difference of course is I work in the medical device industry.

    But the economics are the same. Bugs cost exponentially more the later you catch them in development. Of course the stakes are higher in my arena.

    And when MS ships a bug customers get to deal with it until the next release. That's a world of pain, yeah it doesn't seem to eat into your profitability in the short term.

    I  read once that MS tracks customer support calls to developers code and fires the coders who rank high #s of support cost. Is there any truth to that?

    Whether it's the case or no, I surely would prefer to see MS shipping things *right* than fast.

    This 'blogsite' is a prime example of design run amok while ignoring the basics. Why the hell is the core content delivered in AV streams? supposedly we're engineers, how about putting the content out as *text* with html available for those who want to add formatting for readability?


  • User profile image
    travis

    Simon wrote:
    works fine for me in Firefox, what are you guys going on about? Perplexed  

    Same for me.  In fact, I'd say it works better in FireFox than in IE (or the stripped down IE inside RSSBandit).

  • User profile image
    RedWolves2

    travis wrote:
    Simon wrote: works fine for me in Firefox, what are you guys going on about? Perplexed  

    Same for me.  In fact, I'd say it works better in FireFox than in IE (or the stripped down IE inside RSSBandit).


    You know in RSS Bandit you can go to tools > options and one of the tabs will let you check checkboxes to enable all the IE features.

  • User profile image
    vs4967

    interesting

  • User profile image
    spivonious

    , vs4967 wrote

    interesting

    Thanks for that enlightening addition to a 6.5 year-old thread.

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