Coffeehouse Thread

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Does anyone else not like Service pack 2?

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  • User profile image
    jamie

    I gotta say i am really having a hard time with this release.  Its a land grab is what it is

    Here's my review:

    The Good:
    - Security settings in one panel

    The bad:
    - no cross frame scripting on local domain
    - simple little scripts - like "Click here to make this your homepage" are blocked

    - WAY TOO MANY - this page is blocked from running because your using - what usually amounts to - a non- MS sanctioned way of doing something ie; css with graphics, .js includes etc

    - the removal of kiosk mode interfaces
    this is my main one. I do alot of these - full screen windows-ish interfaces - but now - they all error, or when they do finally open ( after getting through the Pop up blocker) they add a top toolbar - and usually the status bar - even if it is turned off.

    This is only a land grab = NO more making full screen interfaces that cover windows ( like you could do since IE4 )

    I cant use mozilla for this very reason - when i need full screen - i DONT WANT A TOOL BAR.

    Serive Pack 2 is the worst thing i have ever seen come out of a supposed user friendly company. It completely makes it impossible to do what you COULD before.

    I want to remove it
    ug

    i hate security excuses for land grab decreaced functionality and freedom

    ** cue the 20 replies about how important security is

    ** the web worked just fine for last 6 years - withOUT this ( buy Adaware and Spybot and stick that in windows - but dont take away my ability to do what i want - SP2 = a big NO finger pointing at you ALL DAY as you try to build stuff)

  • User profile image
    Shining Arcanine

    jamie wrote:
    The bad:
    - no cross frame scripting on local domain
    - simple little scripts - like "Click here to make this your homepage" are blocked


    That is the idea. It increases security. Do you know that javascripts can change your homepage without your knowledge?

    jamie wrote:
    - WAY TOO MANY - this page is blocked from running because your using - what usually amounts to - a non- MS sanctioned way of doing something ie; css with graphics, .js includes etc


    When I was running XP SP2 RC1, I didn't come across any of these issues. I use CSS (hacked so that IE would display it properly) with Graphics on my website, IE 6.02 had no problems with it unless you take its poor CSS support (which keeps me from doing advanced things) into consideration.

    jamie wrote:
    - the removal of kiosk mode interfaces
    this is my main one. I do alot of these - full screen windows-ish interfaces - but now - they all error, or when they do finally open ( after getting through the Pop up blocker) they add a top toolbar - and usually the status bar - even if it is turned off.


    Until today, I've never heard of Kiosk interfaces and if a method they use can be used for mal intent, I'm glad to see them go.

    jamie wrote:
    This is only a land grab = NO more making full screen interfaces that cover windows ( like you could do since IE4

    I cant use mozilla for this very reason - when i need full screen - i DONT WANT A TOOL BAR.)


    This prevents malicious webpages from taking over the screen. Whether or not you like it, it had to go. Mozilla did the same thing to prevent malicious webpages from taking over the screen.

    jamie wrote:
    Serive Pack 2 is the worst thing i have ever seen come out of a supposed USER FRIENDLY company. It completely makes it impossible to do what you COULD before.)


    Making it difficult to do things to other people's computers is the idea. You cannot easily hack into the average person's computer anymore.

    jamie wrote:
    i hate security excuses for land grab decreaced functionality and freedom


    If someone were to hack into your computer and use it in DDOS attacks causing your ISP to shut down your internet connection or steal your identity, I think you would be singing a different tune.

    Just my 2 cents.

  • User profile image
    Manip

    Agreed with the above post. I think all the changes I've seen in SP2 are welcome including the ones you mentioned above.

  • User profile image
    jamie

    as i said - cue the 20 posts about security Wink

    all i know - as someone interested in using IE to do stuff - that maybe it wasnt meant to do - but did FLAWLESSLY - well all that was usually interface specific stuff and its mostly been removed.

    If there was another browser that offered it - i gotta say for first time in my life - id look at switching

    * I talked alot with Ben Slivka during the ie3/4 years and chris jones in ie5 years

    this stuff was really developer empowering stuff
    - but ya i guess "goofs" could use it for bad purposes..

    Still think there could have been other ways rather than removing developer features

    and i also do think your top brass wanted this stuff gone - not so much for security - but so that - say Google couldnt make its web site - a full screen interface - covering Win desktop

    sigh

  • User profile image
    miseldine

    The pop up blocker is very neat. Probably the smartest and less obtrusive blocker I've used.

    I'm unsure about the security panel as I use McAfee which provides its own...so I ended up with a lot of overlap. But otherwise, it too is a great feature.

    One thing that annoyed me, and I posted a bug report, was that all my Windows Media Player 9 settings were lost in the update process. That sucked as all the songs I'd removed from the library, but not the hard drive reappeared. Hopefully that's going to be fixed Wink

  • User profile image
    mvuijlst

    With a Kiosk mode website you could easily have the entire screen look like a regular Windows XP desktop login screen. Or a net banking application.

    Then the only thing you need to do is wait for users who wouldn't know where F11 is if they had it glued on their right pinky to enter their names and passwords. Or credit card numbers. Girfriend's phone numbers. Whatever.

  • User profile image
    Shining Arcanine

    jamie wrote:
    all i know - as someone interested in using IE to do stuff - that maybe it wasnt meant to do - but did FLAWLESSLY - well all that was usually interface specific stuff and its mostly been removed.

    If there was another browser that offered it - i gotta say for first time in my life - id look at switching


    The interface specific stuff is a security issue. I'm not quite sure how could prefer a less secure browser to a more secure browser.

    jamie wrote:
    * I talked alot with Ben Slivka during the ie3/4 years and chris jones in ie5 years

    this stuff was really developer empowering stuff
    - but ya i guess "goofs" could use it for bad purposes..


    Personally, I don't want developers to be empowered to make it impossible for me to leave their website.

    jamie wrote:
    Still think there could have been other ways rather than removing developer features


    Most people hate it when webpages hijack Internet Explorer, you are the only person that I have ever known that likes it.

    jamie wrote:
    and i also do think your top brass wanted this stuff gone - not so much for security - but so that - say Google couldnt make its web site - a full screen interface - covering Win desktop


    I don't work for Microsoft but I think that if Google did that, there would be a mass exodus to MSN and Yahoo.

  • User profile image
    jamie

    Example:  Service pack 2 BROKE all of these:

    http://www.jgrant.com/grin/desktop.htm

    ( oh thats some scarry stuff haha - they are FUN not malicious! )


    now they all have toolbars and crap and error

    used to be great

    why did they have to remove kiosk mode!!

  • User profile image
    Manip

    Sounds MORE like poor implementation on the part of the developer to me.

  • User profile image
    Shining Arcanine

    Manip wrote:
    Sounds MORE like poor implementation on the part of the developer to me.


    So far, that is what it sounds like to me.

  • User profile image
    jamie

    help request:

    assuming i am comletely off base here - how DO you launch a full screen window - with SP2 installed - that would have NO toolbars or status bars.

    If the answer is now: You cant

    then thats what im saying is unfortunate.

    if the answer is you can:  please tell me how

  • User profile image
    jamie

    [quote user="Shining Arcanine"]

    Personally, I don't want developers to be empowered to make it impossible for me to leave their website.

    Most people hate it when webpages hijack Internet Explorer, you are the only person that I have ever known that likes it.




    >> What if you arnt "highjacking" anything?
    What if its clear - you are launching a full screen window. This was a feature that is now gone...correct?

  • User profile image
    warren

    What a pathetic sob story.

    Basically what you're saying is "waahhh, my poorly-written, counter-intuitive, obstructive applications are broken with SP2, therefore SP2 sucks!"


    The people who will complain most are webmasters and web developers who are trying to dupe or take advantage of the user, or are simply using the wrong tools to accomplish the task at hand.  Abritrarily taking over a user's entire screen should NEVER be something that anybody out on the Internet is capable of doing with one line of code.  Never, ever, ever.  People who want to present a "full-screen interface" will have to provide a software download (ActiveX, EXE, or MSI) from now on -- this is a good thing, since it requires user action to ensure that something like this is actually what the user wants.


  • User profile image
    jamie

    no errors before sp2 on any of that stuff.


    re; poor implimentation: you mean like when you click "Edit" on channel nine and get: 

  • User profile image
    jamie

    ..guess youd have to love windows so much - youd want to emulate it - and spend your spare time making interfaces that appear to boot - and "appear" to have a startbar, browser. media player - all in dhtml and html jscript - only to have the functionality REMOVED on you

    so ya i agree

    sob sob sob

  • User profile image
    Shining Arcanine

    jamie wrote:
    [quote user="Shining Arcanine"]

    Personally, I don't want developers to be empowered to make it impossible for me to leave their website.

    Most people hate it when webpages hijack Internet Explorer, you are the only person that I have ever known that likes it.




    >> What if you arnt "highjacking" anything?
    What if its clear - you are launching a full screen window. This was a feature that is now gone...correct?


    Launching a full screen is hijacking.

    jamie wrote:
    ..guess youd have to love windows so much - youd want to emulate it - and spend your spare time making interfaces that appear to boot - and "appear" to have a startbar, browser. media player - all in dhtml and html jscript - only to have the functionality REMOVED on you

    so ya i agree

    sob sob sob



    I'd just use Windows.

  • User profile image
    warren

    If I wanted to use a Windows-style UI, but with a similar performance hit to using JS and DHTML and so on, I'd be using KDE on Linux.

  • User profile image
    jamie

    [programmers do not like use of full screen interfaces]  <-- got it.

    ..back to serv pack2

    so i guess use of iframes and almost any auto-action invoking item is now tabboo as well. ( error )

    all i know is a loaded sp2 - and now all day - its nag nag nag - allow allow allow

    and some stuff has been removed completely.


    This post was also addressed to people who dont like sp2 - or have issues with it... so if you like it.. great



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