Coffeehouse Thread

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  • User profile image
    Donkslayer

    Which one do you use? and what for?(random but im bored here)

  • User profile image
    steel300

    I'll bite. Nothing like a good flame war to keep things lively.

    I use Windows.

    Here's why:

    1) *GUARANTEED* Support, I'm not waiting for some guy to answer my question at his whim. I have a fleet of people who's sole purpose is to offer support and help should I ask for it.

    2) Most F/OSS software is undobtedly amateruware. Most of it is cheap hacks to attempt to do something cool. Just take a few minutes and browse sourceforge or freshmeat. It's mostly half finished amateurware.

    2.33333) The most successful F/OSS apps are designed by developers and for developers. Apache, bash, gcc,  perl, etc. Very few apps are aimed at increasing desktop productivity. Though that number does seem to be changing (not very fast though). I am a desktop user first, then a developer.

    2.66666) Speaking as a devolper, the tools to build and get apps running are much better under windows. no good IDE exists for linux. KDevelop never works right. Anjuta can't even make a basic makefile. Eclipse is nothing but broken plugins. There is no IDE in linux taht can even begin to be compared to Visual Studio.

    3) Much more innovation with Windows. Linux got preempt 4 years after Windows. Composite 2 years after windows. Not to mention that linux still doesn't have a proper acpi implementation. They were thirteen years late getting a HAL. It took them thirteen years to properly automount cd's. And yet, they think they're techincally advanced. Plus the new and advanced task schedulers that are aimed at the desktop user (staircase, -np, zaphod) are nothing but an SPA, which is the same concept as the NT based kernels task schedulers.

    4) I think that Stallman and anything released under his GPL following his GNU Manifesto are openly communist and I will not support anything that is remotely communistic in nature.

  • User profile image
    Jeremy W

    Windows. Because it's cheaper.

  • User profile image
    Loadsgood

    Hey Donkslayer, what about Mac? People here do use them you know, it's a bit mean leaving them out. I use Windows, because I don't know how to use linux. Macs I know the basics of how to use it, but I don't own one.

  • User profile image
    Donkslayer

    oops, sry.I forgot. Mac Too!

  • User profile image
    earnshaw

    Windows!  Having spent weeks trying to hook up an Epson 3-in-1 printer/fax/copier to a Linux box has put me off FREEWARE and CHEAPWARE forever.  I don't denigrate the socialist/eutopia/idealistic bent of the Linux adherents.  They have their axe to grind -- and grind they must.  Being beholden to a single megacorp has its downside.  Probably a second and third competitors to Microsoft would be an advantage to buyers in the marketplace.  However, like the telephone and electric companies, Microsoft make products that turn Microsoft into a natural monopoly.  Lots of software Microsoft has created could have been designed differently.  Opinions will always differ.  However, in the end, it only matters that it has been implemented one way -- the de facto standard way -- and people adapt to that.  If it breaks and costs serious money to business people then Microsoft steps in to correct the problem.  With Linux, YOU are left holding the bag.  This is not a huge problem for small shops that can hire and retain a Linux guru for whom awk and grep are mother's milk.  The megacorp customers of Microsoft need Microsoft's loving arms in case bad things happen.  Apple produces fine products that everybody tells me is comprehensible to casual users.  If that is true then Microsoft can and should take lessons from Apple and make their products easier to use, more forgiving, and more informative when things go wrong.  Linux is good in the small -- e.g. the company that only needs to host a small volume web site or ftp site.  Microsoft is good in the large.

  • User profile image
    dugsnake

    Beer28 wrote:
    <quote>Linux or windows?</quote>

    ok, so my answer to your original question is
    Linux && Windows, it doesn't have to be Linux || Windows, make the best out of each one's strengths.



    If Linux && Windows = True,
    then always Linux || Windows = True

    Should have been if Linux && Windows, then not Linux ^ Windows.

    Just a technical observation.  Wink

  • User profile image
    dugsnake

    Sorry, didn't answer.  I use both Windows and Linux.  Never could get into the whole Mac thing though.  Kind of why I'm not a big Sun fan either.  Why tie my OS to my hardware?  The whole PowerPC, Mac, OS/2 and Windows NT era was promising but collapsed.  I wouldn't mind getting my hands on a Transmeta Crusoe Developer Kit.  Kind of cool idea.  A computer with no fan.

    I use Linux for free software I can't get pirated for my Windows box.  Just kidding!  Anyways, lately I use my Linux box for Gimp.  Beats the gazillion dollars Adobe wants for Photoshop.

    Made with Gimp:

  • User profile image
    dugsnake

    Since we're on the topic, I'm writing a paper on this topic.  Here is what I have so far, what do you all think?

    Microsoft® is the Craftsman® of the Computing Industry By Thao “Patrick” T. Nguyen, LCP, LCI, CCNA, MCSE, MCDBA, MCT, A+, Network+, Project Manager for the Chicago Police Department—Unit 125 Information Services Division*

    “A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away…”  These are the famous beginning texts in the movie Star Wars.  The storyline in that movie is much like the computing industry of today.  Many people feel that Microsoft® is the “evil Galactic Empire” and the open source community, with Linux at its core, is the “Rebel Alliance.”  However, I propose a different analogy.  Microsoft® is the Craftsman® of the computing industry.  Microsoft is not an evil monopoly, but a maker of many different quality tools, much like the famous Sears® Craftsman® brand.

    First, let’s discuss operating systems.  What are the costs?

     

    Microsoft Windows Server 2003 Enterprise Ed. (25 Users)

    $3717.59[1]

    Novell NetWare 6.5 + 25-User e-License

    $4635.00[2]

    Red Hat Enterprise Linux AS Premium Ed. w/Prov Mod

    $2691.00[3]

    Sun Solaris Midrange Server (v. 9) License (16 Processors)

    $29,197.16[4]

     

    With Novell and Sun moving towards Linux and Red Hat already a Linux distribution, the true comparisons are between Microsoft Windows 2003 vs. a purchased and third party supported Linux distribution vs. a free and self supported Linux distribution.

    <more stuff to go here>

    If you find yourself having to make an IT decision, the question is not, if you want to join the “Rebel Alliance” or the “Dark Side,” but rather, are you a tool maker or a builder?  Would you rather have a Craftsman® toolbox filled with a bunch of Craftsman® tools or a crude toolbox you put together yourself with a mixed brand of tools?  In most situations, I would recommend people use Microsoft® products.  They are more expensive upfront than an open source alternative, but I would pay more upfront for a good quality toolset that is easy to use.  Microsoft is as much a monopoly in the computing industry as Sears® Craftsman® is in tools.

    * The opinions in this document are that of the author’s and do not reflect the opinions of the Chicago Police Department.

    [2] Price from Novell as of 12 Nov 2004.  http://www.novell.com/products/netware/pricing.html

    [3] Price from Red Hat as of 12 Nov 2004.  http://www.redhat.com/apps/commerce/rhel/as/


  • User profile image
    dugsnake

    Beer28 wrote:
    dugsnake wrote:Sorry, didn't answer.  I use both Windows and Linux.  Never could get into the whole Mac thing though.  Kind of why I'm not a big Sun fan either.  Why tie my OS to my hardware?  The whole PowerPC, Mac, OS/2 and Windows NT era was promising but collapsed.  I wouldn't mind getting my hands on a Transmeta Crusoe Developer Kit.  Kind of cool idea.  A computer with no fan.

    I use Linux for free software I can't get pirated for my Windows box.  Just kidding!  Anyways, lately I use my Linux box for Gimp.  Beats the gazillion dollars Adobe wants for Photoshop.

    Made with Gimp:


    You do know that the .gif plug in for GIMP is in violation of Unisys/compuserve's licensing on the gif format. I assume you have gotten that license seperately, and have created that animated gif in good standing the patents


    lol...uhmmm...of course I did!  Wink  I'm looking into if a png file can do animation like a gif.

  • User profile image
    dugsnake

    Beer28 wrote:


    Well it's a good thing that my web site has netted me a profit of about -$1000.00.  So, if they want 20% of my profits, I figure they owe me $200!  I'll send them my invoice tomorrow.  Smiley

  • User profile image
    dugsnake

    Donkslayer wrote:
    Windows isnt that cheap.Linux is free if memory serves me correctly

    For someone who doesn't mind learning how to do things on their own and rtfm it's free, but for a majority of the people, TCO is probably higher than using Windows.

  • User profile image
    Donkslayer

    BTW which is more stable?

  • User profile image
    Donkslayer

    Quote

    I don't expect people at Red hat or mandrake to make a great version for free, I don't mind paying for linux because the pay version is alot better. Esp if you want to play games and use nicer apps.




    Dont most games run on windows/mac tho?

  • User profile image
    dugsnake

    Americas Army has a Linux version.  Smiley

  • User profile image
    Donkslayer

    I still prefer windows tho. AVP is always good

  • User profile image
    dugsnake

    Beer28 wrote:
    As for my mandrake destkop, I do all sorts of freaky stuff to it constantly, running looking glass, poking into X source, ect... I also develop on it, so I do stuff a normal user probably wouldn't. It holds up pretty darn well though, I have the power pack edition with the commerical rpms.


    You forgot the occassional use of nmap.  Wink

  • User profile image
    dugsnake

    Beer28 wrote:
    that's lame, grabbing packets off the network or any type of activity like that is a waste of my time. It's like those fat slobs that drive around in SUV's looking for Wireless networks with no encryption key, or worse yet that sit there and spend hours try to break it eating cold pizza.

     I'd rather spend my time to build apps and make linux better.  I could never understand why people do that. I just got the north american release of the mitnick movie trackdown a month or 2 ago. That type of thing seems to be a world of it's own.

    Actually, there is some merit to learning how to do that stuff.  I agree that people that do that stuff maliciously is lame, but they do it.  I spend a lot of my time learning how crackers work.  Not because I want to crack into people's networks or applications, but because I want to make my network and applications more secure.  To stop a thief you have to think like a thief.

    I remember a company who had crackers on their network downloading top secret, very secure, source code to a vanguard software package.  The amazing thing isn't that they got in and were able to do it, but that they were in and downloading for over a week!  Who was that company?  Let me think...oh yeah...it was Microsoft!  They learned their lesson the hard way.

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