Coffeehouse Thread

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The IE developer center - just for Jamie :)

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  • User profile image
    jonathanh

    I'm surprised that Dave Massey hasn't swung by to tell Channel 9 himself, but I'll steal his thunder: check out the new Internet Explorer Developer Center at http://msdn.microsoft.com/ie/

  • User profile image
    DMassy

    It's been a busy day Smiley
    I was wondering if anyone here would notice. All feedback is appreciated. If there are topics you'd like to see covered on the IE Developer Center please let us know.

    Thanks
    -Dave

  • User profile image
    bsilby

    I've had a good look around the IE developer center. I think it is very useful. It provides a good set of links to useful sections. I found the dhtml developer stuff particularly interesting. I plan to use the center frequently.

    Hopefully it will be well utilized by others.

    Cheers,
    Brent.

  • User profile image
    Loadsgood

    Hey noticed that it links to the Channel9 Wiki. Pretty good, maybe that'll encourage more Microsoft staff to edit the Wiki. Therefore making more people want to go to it, then they come to Channel9 and the wheels start turning for it to become cool once again. Oh and the center looks nice... Wink
    EDIT: So Microsoftians DO read Jamie's ideas. Cool Smiley


    Get ready for it people. Channel9 might become what it used to be (a popular website),
    Loadsgood.

  • User profile image
    jamie

    first look = interesting

    clicked Browser Control
    loaded page:

    "In visual studio .net bla bla"

    err.. webdevelopers/designers seldom use programming suites like VB -(FP/DW) hey i wish i was smart enough to - but im not.

    Im more interested in:

    Web browser object - click - page loads:

    In FRONTPAGE - paste in this code.  Now check your page - it should work

    MSDN = too hard for non-programmers
    In the "old" days - you guys use to have a gallery of IE specific ZIPPED running working samples from which we could hack and learn

    step by step code snipets - even though you try hard to explain what they do - just dont take the place of ready to run samples

    I will go through this site in more detail later..
    thats just a first impression

    * looking for something between MSDN and office FP site = intermediate

  • User profile image
    Shining Arcanine

    Dave, a list of specification unconformities and when each should be fixed would be nice.

    Also, please update the CSS Parser; its compliance of CSS Level 2 needs a significant amount of work and if I recall CSS Level 1 also needs some work.
     
    Note: I have no clue why asking for standards compliance implies changing quirks mode since it doesn't. It implies fixing standards mode so it renders the page according to the specification (like its name suggests).

  • User profile image
    jamie

    sorry if i sound to be always complaining
    - im really only refering to a small aspect of site
    - site in general is great idea (although currently - just an easier frontend to msdn

    so thanks Smiley

    ...that said

    just go to this ie site.. or msdn - and pretend you dont know how to program - or more graphically - pretend all you can understand are pictures - or things that already run/work - easily.

    Now look at msdn

    not a whole lot of images...
    and most "samples" are broken down into step by step tutorials - for people who can read code

    the site is a great idea.. kudos

    maybe just release the odd component now and again..
    New this week - The flyouts used on Microsoft.com - "this little app - lets you build toolbars just like the one we use..etc without editing .js -or asp includes"

    *yes there are sites on web like dynamic drive that offer cool stuff like this - but its not as good as MS code!..

    release more of that Smiley

    ps - i did hack that toolbar - and got its 4 include files working etc.. took foreverrrr




  • User profile image
    jamie

    a frontpage example would be when they added layer and behaviours task pane - that rocked

    for the first time i  could see graphically want alot of the scripts and code i had did - and hense - i learned how to make them on my own

    i downloaded those "express" vb thing to try it - "The easy VB"

    *hand flys over head makes swoosh noise

    When i read in press "MS releases new easy VB for web developers" i was picturing - literally - no laughing
    -an MS Publisher style suite of templates and ready to go stuff - drag and drop - but not flyers and letterheads.. IE controls and email forms -GOOD photo albums - easy winmedia samples

    all with wizards
    thats what i was hoping for - VB for grandma
    ..i know.. rtfm haha

  • User profile image
    bsilby

    jamie wrote:
    ...but its not as good as MS code!..


    Ooohhh Hee hee hee. You'd better duck for cover after saying that.

    I agree though. Long live MS code!

  • User profile image
    Loadsgood

    jamie wrote:
    ...passport for asp sites... the photogallery tool on msn....


    ...Then Windows...


    MSN Spaces is the coolest thing nowadays. Check out mine!
    Loadsgood.

  • User profile image
    jamie

    dynamic drive dhtml = herky jerky

    code on ms sites = smoooooth baby

    release it Smiley

    (tuners, chat sessions, CHANNEL9 PORTAL, all of it - empty of course)

    * 90% of it only works on MS / asp / ie / iis /windows anyway correct?


    ...passport for asp sites... the photogallery tool on msn....ALL of msn spaces

    now THAT would be a new ie site (y) = thumbs up as jonathan knows Wink

  • User profile image
    jamie

    Loadsgood wrote:


    ...Then Windows...


    .



    i think if ms just made most of the stuff that works on windows more open - or not even really open - but they released their code for stuff:

    like thier great online chat app? here it is for access, as well as msql

    what do they loose?

    you need ms apps to run it

    windows should be the kernal group - and yes interface is important too so keep that somewhat controled (although i wouldnt)

    just things like utilities within windows - calc,- yes - ie - yes - winmedia - that code should be free ( so long as it is only useful on Windows)

    if this code COULD be useful on other OS's then this wouldnt work

    so maybe Linux guys get to play with ie code - all they will see is the legnths you went too for compatability/crashing

    so maybe they will learn - but at the same time THOUSANDS of ie developers/programmers will also help improve that code base (they will)

    so to me - you leverage that base NOW you dont let them participate in the only available option: OSS

    ie was made great by what it can/could do. The prime example of ie's brilliance is only used/shown on ms sites ( and grininc.ca-pre sp2 ;p

    (battleship leaning hard to stern)

  • User profile image
    ZippyV

    Shining Arcanine wrote:
    Dave, a list of specification unconformities and when each should be fixed would be nice.

    Also, please update the CSS Parser; its compliance of CSS Level 2 needs a significant amount of work and if I recall CSS Level 1 also needs some work.
     
    Note: I have no clue why asking for standards compliance implies changing quirks mode since it doesn't. It implies fixing standards mode so it renders the page according to the specification (like its name suggests).


    Couldn't agree more with this.

  • User profile image
    steel300

    jamie wrote:

    so maybe Linux guys get to play with ie code - all they will see is the legnths you went too for compatability/crashing

    so maybe they will learn - but at the same time THOUSANDS of ie developers/programmers will also help improve that code base (they will)


    And if someone adds code to IE, who owns it? How does MS benefit from having uncertainties about ownership in there own code? There's lots of people that want to see MS fall. Allowing them to add code would be an absolutely horrible idea.

  • User profile image
    Rossj

    steel300 wrote:
    jamie wrote:
    so maybe Linux guys get to play with ie code - all they will see is the legnths you went too for compatability/crashing

    so maybe they will learn - but at the same time THOUSANDS of ie developers/programmers will also help improve that code base (they will)


    And if someone adds code to IE, who owns it? How does MS benefit from having uncertainties about ownership in there own code? There's lots of people that want to see MS fall. Allowing them to add code would be an absolutely horrible idea.



    Who owns it? The author. But just because someone contributes code it doesn't mean Microsoft have to use it.  Now lets just imagine people are sending in bug fixes instead of new features - or even just pointing out bugs so someone internally can fix it, doesn't that sound like a nice idea (if a little unrealistic)?

  • User profile image
    Loadsgood

    Because doing that would kill many a persons jobs since they aren't needed and stock would go dramatically down. Basically they don't do it because of money.


    I wonder if more Microsoftians came here then we wouldn't pay them out so much,
    Loadsgood.

  • User profile image
    BruceMorgan

    Loadsgood wrote:
    Because doing that would kill many a persons jobs since they aren't needed and stock would go dramatically down. Basically they don't do it because of money."


    That doesn't really follow.  If we didn't need all the developers we currently employ, then our cost structure would go way down, our profits would increase, and our stock would go up.

    BTW, the more common term is Microsofties, but I like Microsoftians better.

  • User profile image
    jamie

    i guess i just need to understand: why keep certrain code closed - if it only works or is worthwhile on Windows / asp / IIS etc

    in other words.. if something only works with your stuff - release it for all

    = we all use your stuff
    = get good press
    = stem oss diversions

    why the wait?

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