Coffeehouse Thread

31 posts

Why Win98 does not supported by MS in furture?

Back to Forum: Coffeehouse
  • User profile image
    leighsword

    We hope the MS still to support Win98 platform, becuase they have no resoning to upgrade their OS just for using our application. they have some important data(such as finance) in the privous OS,and the applicaion also build on win98.

    To the MSDE,the SQL express 2005 is amazed, but we have no choice on it,becuase of the Win98 does not suportted.

    Think about twice.
    Give me a good reson for this point of view?

  • User profile image
    Loadsgood

    Windows 98 won't be supported by Microsoft because they're encouraging users to upgrade to a higher OS. Have you actually tried the application on any other OS than Windows 98? There is a high chance that it will work, especially with Windows XP's ability to run old programs in compatibility mode, and Windows XP starter edition (although for this situation I don't recommend it) which is cheaper than the normal Windows XP. You can take the important data and either burn it to CD (if the computer has a CD burner) or get winzip and put all the important data files into one zip file, then click the split button in one of the menus (I don't exactly remember which one) then you should dump the files on to a floppy and transport them to a higher OS computer. If you do get a higher OS computer then your SQL Express problem will be solved.


    I'm in problem solving mode peoples!
    Loadsgood.

  • User profile image
    Spar

    Why won't Micorosft support Win98 anymore? Because it's old technology and insecure in comparison to WinXP SP2. 

    Windows 98 had to be what, 6 or seven years old by now? Computer hardware has come on in leaps and bound since Win98, and software has to keep up. Having Win98 on todays machines would be like putting a two stroke motor into a ferrari... It'll look good on the outside, but will go no-where fast.

  • User profile image
    W3bbo

    Microsoft, however, still could be doing more to support older architechture.

    By encouraging users of older computers to buy new computers and ditching support of their older platforms... what happens to their old PCs?

    Typically, they end up at the landfill site, literally.

    Microsoft should rewrite parts of Windows XP so it runs on older machines, then, hopefully, no-one would be complaining, and they'd be making more money besides.

    Well, Windows 2000 is still supported, right? Wink

  • User profile image
    BruceMorgan

    There are tons of reasons to upgrade to XP over 98, not just security.  The overall functionality of the OS (Bluetooth, USB, driver support, app compat) - you name it, and XP is better than 98.

    Windows 98 is part of the 9x family, with its roots back in DOS and Win16.  Yuck. 2K and XP have their roots in NT, which has a far more robust architecture. 

    It's not far off to say that Windows 98 and Windows XP are entirely different operating systems that happen to share a common API and thus can run the same programs. But XP runs them all better...

    W3bbo wrote:
    Microsoft, however, still could be doing more to support older architechture (sic)

    I much rather than we do more to support newer architectures than work to breath new life into ancient hardware.  

    Microsoft wouldn't make any more money.  Nobody would give a damn.

    A couple of months ago I threw a (mostly) working P133 Hitachi laptop from 1997 into the trash.

    Why? It was taking up space. Futzing around with it to make it run a new OS would be a vast waste of time.  It has a 800x600 screen, something like a 6G hard drive, and that pokey Pentium 133 with 128MB of RAM.  Crap, in other words.

    I got 5 years of use out of it then I bought a replacement and put the Hitachi in a drawer until I chucked it.  I got my value out of it.

    The world moves on.  Throw the old stuff on the landfill when you've wrung all the value out of it and move on.

  • User profile image
    leighsword

    hi, loadsgood, your solution will be costly in maintenance phase, do you really Thinking In User?
    actually they are only an expert in their domain,not our domain as computing.

  • User profile image
    Tensor

    BruceMorgan wrote:


    The world moves on.  Throw the old stuff on the landfill when you've wrung all the value out of it and move on.



    Well there is a sustainable policy if I ever heard one. Thank you for summing up all that is wrong with our society in one sentence!
  • User profile image
    sbc

    BruceMorgan wrote:

    The world moves on.  Throw the old stuff on the landfill when you've wrung all the value out of it and move on.


    I think that is the biggest issues with old PC's is that they all just go into land fill sites. There should be some law requiring old PC's to be recycled (made into new PC's potentially, as the material can still be used), or tax incentives for recycling (or fines for dumping). It should be easy for home users to recycle old computers and electronics (perhaps an elctronics bin along with the garden waste and plastic ones).

    Or give them to countries that cannot really afford computers and Microsoft software (they should not pay western prices for software - which, along with dislike of the US, is why they are moving to Linux).

  • User profile image
    Sven Groot

    In my experience a lot of has-been computers end up at schools. Wink

  • User profile image
    Tensor

    sbc wrote:
    I think that is the biggest issues with old PC's is that they all just go into land fill sites. There should be some law requiring old PC's to be recycled (made into new PC's potentially, as the material can still be used), or tax incentives for recycling (or fines for dumping). It should be easy for home users to recycle old computers and electronics (perhaps an elctronics bin along with the garden waste and plastic ones).

    Or give them to countries that cannot really afford computers and Microsoft software (they should not pay western prices for software - which, along with dislike of the US, is why they are moving to Linux).



    Actually apparently mobile phones are the worst offenders - people change them every year or so and one of the pargets components is a battery full of heavy metals.

    Anyway, the EU is moving in this direction - requiring manufacturers to bear the cost of recycling or disposing of the goods they make. To my mind this is a Good Thing and is actualyl driving some intresting technology with thermo/rf sensitive materials.

    And of course re-use is to be encouraged. Throwing away a 6 year old PC that works perfectly well because it is of no use to you, while it is perfectly functional and usefull to toher people seems horrific to me...

  • User profile image
    BruceMorgan

    Tensor wrote:
    Well there is a sustainable policy if I ever heard one. Thank you for summing up all that is wrong with our society in one sentence!


    That's just a ridiculowusly hyperbolic overstatment.

    I could be more PC by saying "recycle reponsibly", so if it makes you feel better, OK.  Imagine I said that instead.

    My laptop's battery wouldn't hold a charge and it needed a PCMIA Ethernet adapter, which was sort of flaky.  Hard drive was having the occasional issues.  Few people would want the hassle of dealing with that.

    As for giving stuff to schools, yeah right.

    Last time I tried to donate an old 15" monitor to a school, they said "No thanks".  They had all the old equipment they could possibly want - mounds of it, in fact - and would much rather have newer, more reliable equipment. The school district here has some policies about what they'll accept and the machines they'll take are not the kind of junk most people want to get rid of.  They don't want to overload their already overloaded IT staff fooling around with bad hardware, and they can't offload the work onto the teachers.

    Regardless of that, do you really want your kids working on obsolete old junk that barely functions?  Imagine it's a high school.  How does working on old software on old equipment help prepare them for a real world job market or college? 

    Imagine it's an elementary school.  How does working on old equipment that's not what they have at home help them?  Sure, there's some mild value in kids doing their times tables on a creaky Apple IIc from 1985, or play Oregon Trail or a Carmen Sandiego on a WIndows 98 machine. 

  • User profile image
    Sven Groot

    My parents both work at primary schools. My mother is the principal for Cbs De Parel in Portugaal, and my father is the Intern Begeleider (don't know the English equivalent of that job title) and ICT coordinator for Obs De Wilgen in Sliedrecht (website made by yours truly).

    Only a few years ago did our government decide that every school should have decent computer infrastructure and Internet access, and was sufficient money for the task given to them. Prior to that, primarys schools would be very happy with almost all computer equipment donated to them. I don't have much dealing with my mother's school (although I do know that their Windows XP network is managed by an external company (on-site sysadmins are way to expensive for schools) and they made a mess out of it; they recently had someone check out their network and it yielded a 40 page document listing all that was wrong with it). On my dad's school, he's responsible for all IT business, and I have helped him with it. This is a brief outline of their network:
    Server 1: Windows 2000 Advanced Server, on a Pentium III Xeon 533MHz, 512MB ECC SDRAM, rackmounted. This is the Domain Controller). It also runs a few MSDE databases.
    Server 2: Windows 2000 Advanced Server, on a Pentium III 533MHz, 256MB ECC SCRAM, tower. Runs ISA Server 2000 and Exchange Server 2000.
    Server 3: Windows Server 2003 Enterprise, on a Pentium 4 2.8GHz, 1GB DDR-RAM. This isn't really a server system, just a high-powered desktop that acts as file server, and runs McAfee ePolicy Orchestrator. It was added quite recently, because the 2 other servers were showing the strain, and actually replacing them can't be done for at least 2 more years.
    Server 4: An Avantis CDServe+ Server. This is a hardware-based Virtual CD solution.
    There are around 70 Windows 2000 Professional clients on the network, and 4 Windows XP Professional clients.

    Outside of the network however, there are still a few computers running Windows 98. And moreover, I know there are still 4 286AT 12MHz systems running Windows 3.0 being used, only to run a simple grammar training application that doesn't need any better. Wink

    Thanks to our governments "aha erlebnis", the days of donating scrap metal as usable computers to schools are indeed over, but not so long ago, schools had no official IT budget, and everything was welcome. That was more or less what I was referring to.

  • User profile image
    Mike Dimmick

    You can donate your old PC, if you're in the UK. Only donate if it's in good working order. Charities working overseas can stand to have older equipment.

    I have an old Pentium II-300, 256MB RAM, 20GB+8GB HDD machine that might be of use - maybe I'll donate that. I've been hanging on to it in case I want a spare box for testing, but to be honest Virtual PC has mostly taken over that role. This system was one of the most stable I've ever known - it's a shame Dan Technology went bust, because they used to soak test everything before shipping. It's had a lot of interference from me - the final modification was adding a Promise Ultra-ATA/100 controller card to run the new 20GB HDD, rather than using the motherboard's ATA-33 controller.

  • User profile image
    Tensor

    BruceMorgan wrote:

    That's just a ridiculowusly hyperbolic overstatment.


    Actually it was intended as a roughly 40-40-20 mix of abhorrence of waste, dislike of the dumping of heavy metals in _landfill_ of all places, and sarcasm.


    BruceMorgan wrote:

    I could be more PC by saying "recycle reponsibly", so if it makes you feel better, OK.  Imagine I said that instead.


    I could imagine it, but it wouldnt make it more so.

     

    I would apologise for seeming PC but that would probably only reinforce my perceived PC-ness, so instead, next time I want to react to something that pisses me off I'll try to bypass the above mentioned 20% and instead use more offensive or terse language.


    BruceMorgan wrote:

    As for giving stuff to schools, yeah right.


    Err where did I mention schools?

  • User profile image
    Sven Groot

    Tensor wrote:
     


    BruceMorgan wrote:
    As for giving stuff to schools, yeah right.


    Err where did I mention schools?

    You didn't, but I did.

  • User profile image
    sbc

    You can use old PC's as basic web servers / firewalls / proxies. They can run modern software (just not Microsoft's). Pentium (or even 486) are good enough to be used as firewalls/gateways. SmoothWall (or another Linux or BSD based distribution) could be put on them. Cheaper than buying more hardware.

  • User profile image
    BruceMorgan

    BTW, I wanted to mention that at Microsoft we have the "PC Recycle" organization for internal hardware.  They'll pick up your old, unwanted hardware and do something good with it.

    This is via an org called RetroBox (http://www.retrobox.com), which does actual equipment recycling.

    Looks like I could get a P3 1G, 256MB, 20G hard drive machine for $147.

  • User profile image
    Loadsgood

    leighsword wrote:
    hi, loadsgood, your solution will be costly in maintenance phase, do you really Thinking In User?
    actually they are only an expert in their domain,not our domain as computing.



    But it would definately be worth it. If they don't know computers they can always be taught by you, or you could probably get a cheap tutorial from someone at your local computer shop. But if you don't get a better computer, they might as well not have a computer at all. It would be the same as trying to teach someone how to cook food on a fire when we already have stoves, ovens and microwaves. You might as well get them to pull out the wallet because its definately worth it.


    But only upgrade if you have the money to do so,
    Loadsgood.

Comments closed

Comments have been closed since this content was published more than 30 days ago, but if you'd like to continue the conversation, please create a new thread in our Forums, or Contact Us and let us know.