Coffeehouse Thread

19 posts

WINE lockout

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  • User profile image
    Cairo

    From /. (of course!)

    "In January, Microsoft announced a new anti-piracy initiative called Genuine Advantage. From this summer onwards all users of Microsoft Downloads will be required to validate using either an ActiveX control or a standalone tool. Yesterday Ivan Leo Puoti, a Wine developer, discovered that the validation tool checks directly for Wine and bails out with a generic error when found. This is significant as it's not only the first time Microsoft has actively discriminated against users running their programs via Wine, but it's also the first time they've broken radio silence on the project."

    This reminds me of when Windows 3.0 checked specifically for whether the underlying DOS was MS-DOS, and threw an error if it wasn't.

  • User profile image
    Larry​Osterman

    Cairo wrote:
    From /. (of course!)

    This reminds me of when Windows 3.0 checked specifically for whether the underlying DOS was MS-DOS, and threw an error if it wasn't.


    Windows never checked to see if the underlying DOS wasn't MS-DOS.

    There was a beta of Windows that checked, but the code was removed before RTM.

  • User profile image
    GurliGebis

    Well, if the programs require that you own Windows to install and use them, then its logically that it blocks wine, since wine isn't windows.

  • User profile image
    harumscarum

    Not sure what the big deal.

  • User profile image
    Cairo

    I don't personally care, as I don't use Wine (ok, except for when I ran Halflife under it).

    I thought it was interesting that Wine was targeted specifically.

  • User profile image
    Manip

    If your running WINE why do you need XP junk anyway? Are you going to install SP2 on WINE?  .. Microsoft as said already that W2k will be supported with the anti-spyware product, thus you could assume WINE will be also.

  • User profile image
    MisterDonut

    What I don't get is, it's checking to see if you have Genuine Windows. If you're running WINE under Linux, well, you don't. Of course, it should fail.

  • User profile image
    MisterDonut

    But, But, Lockout is a board in HALO 2, not Windows XP or Linux..

  • User profile image
    Sabot

    This doesn't sound to me like it's an anti-linux measure just a system to version control the software that is out there.

    It's common practice to ask question about the target environment on install. If Microsoft have only tested their software under-windows, then it doesn't seem unreasonable to insure that it only runs under that target platform for which it was intended.

  • User profile image
    lars

    [Edit: D'oh. Post removed - I should have RTFA better] 

    Move along, nothing to see here. *blush*

  • User profile image
    barlo_mung

    Cairo wrote:
    From /. (of course!)

    This reminds me of when Windows 3.0 checked specifically for whether the underlying DOS was MS-DOS, and threw an error if it wasn't.



    For starters this is nothing like that.  Also, Larry Osterman has an interesting explanation about that MSDOS issue at:
    http://weblogs.asp.net/larryosterman/archive/2004/08/12/213681.aspx

    Long story short: Windows relied on and modified a lot of the data structures in MSDos.  Any Dos clone would need to be a Perfect clone or Windows would fail.  So requiring MSDos made sense.  Their mistake was trying to hide that fact instead of being open about it.  Too bad they didn't have Channel 9 back then.

  • User profile image
    Dr. Shim

    Cairo wrote:
    [Quoting original poster.]


    The goal of the software is to check if you are running a genuine version of Windows XP. WINE isn't. If Microsoft had to take special measures in order to detect WINE, then fine! WINE users don't need Windows XP updates, for heaven's sake. At least I don't! Tongue Out

  • User profile image
    Cairo

    From Larry Osterman:

    In order to get Windows to work, I had to change the DOS loader to detect when win.com was being loaded, and if it was being loaded, I looked at the code at an offset relative to the base code segment, and if it was a “MOV” instruction, and the amount being moved was the old size of the SFT, I patched the instruction in memory to reflect the new size of the SFT!  Yup, MS-DOS 4.0 patched the running windows binary to make sure Windows would still continue to work.

    Thats... thats... *shudder*




    This guy reverse-engineered the AARD code: http://www.ddj.com/documents/s=1030/ddj9309d/

    ... obfuscated, self-modifying... sounds like a virus. Smiley


  • User profile image
    lars

    Looks like blocking WINE is indeed done on purpose. Does this mean that those who have bought Office licences and run them on WINE won't be able to access updates? Does it say anywhere in the Office EULA that you may not run Office on a non-Microsoft plattform?

  • User profile image
    Maurits

    There's an Office for Mac... of course, it has a seperate EULA.

    Now that Mac's gone UNIX, WINE is a direct competitor to Virtual PC for Mac, right?

  • User profile image
    W3bbo

    There was an article on some news-site the other day about the implications of Microsoft preventing people from running Office on Linux.

    Ah yes, I remember now.

    One of the major contributors to the WINE project wasn't concerned that WU wasn't accessible, because they said that they could sue Microsoft for loads if they continued. (Since it would confirm the Windows/Office integration)

    If I find the link, I'll post it here

  • User profile image
    Cairo

    From Ziff-Davis:

    Microsoft admits targeting Wine users
    Generic Forum Image
    Ingrid Marson
    ZDNet UK
    February 25, 2005, 12:30 GMT

    The software giant has admitted specifically excluding users of the popular Windows compatibility toolkit with its update tool
    Generic Forum Image

    Microsoft prioritised making its anti-piracy tool prevent users of Wine, an open source toolkit that allows users to run Windows applications under Linux, from downloading Windows updates, the software giant said on Friday.

    A Microsoft spokesperson told ZDNet UK it made sure the validation tool used by its Windows Genuine Advantage (WGA) programme identified Wine users, so that only users are running a genuine version of Windows could download updates and add-on tools.

    "As the most popular third-party translation technology in use, Wine was the first emulator to be specifically tested for via WGA," said the spokesperson. "Microsoft does not knowingly provide copyrighted Microsoft Windows OS files to users of third-party emulators or cross-platform API translation technologies such as Wine."

    The spokesperson said users who are not running Windows XP or Windows 2000 natively can still download updates for Microsoft Office from the Office Update Web site.

    Microsoft's public acknowledgement of Wine suggests a shift in corporate policy. Earlier this week Jeremy White, chief executive at CodeWeavers, which sells products based on Wine, said that Microsoft has until now had "a clear corporate policy to not talk about Wine".

    For this reason, White said he was excited rather than worried to hear that the WGA validation tool was blocking Wine. "The reason we love this is because this shows that Microsoft is aware of Wine at very high levels," said White. "For us it's exciting -- it is an acknowledgement of us as a threat."


  • User profile image
    rjdohnert

    lars wrote:
    Looks like blocking WINE is indeed done on purpose. Does this mean that those who have bought Office licences and run them on WINE won't be able to access updates? Does it say anywhere in the Office EULA that you may not run Office on a non-Microsoft plattform?



    From what I have read you will still be able to access Office Updates, what this is inteded to do is block delivery of the freebie cools apps like Photostory and Media Player 10.

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