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VS.NET 2003 html formatting question

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  • User profile image
    Tommi

    I know this subject has been discussed in great lenghts before, but just so I -really- understand it, could someone explain it to me one more time.

    Why is it that VS.NET team didn't make a patch for VS.NET 2003 to fix the HTML formatting bug? With this I mean that eventough if you disable every conceivable "autoformat" option from VS.NET, it still messes up your HTML if you happen to switch from design to code view.

    I've read from someplaces that this would be fixed in Whidbey, but why - oh Why! - can't you/didn't you patch this on VS.NET 2003?

    http://www.dotnet247.com/247reference/msgs/47/235194.aspx

  • User profile image
    ZippyV

    Indeed, we shouldn't have to wait for a new version of vs to get a fix for that annoying bug.

  • User profile image
    harumscarum

    ZippyV wrote:

    Indeed, we shouldn't have to wait for a new version of vs to get a fix for that annoying bug.



    I agree. Really wish this would get fixed in 2003.

  • User profile image
    LazyCoder

    Because they are bastards and they hate us. It's really the only explanation that makes any sense Smiley.

    I haven't checked my Whidbey bits to see if the bug is fixed there yet. If it isn't yet, the standard "it's a beta" excuse will apply.

    Microsoft hasn't been able to get HTML editing right for, what, 10 years now? When did FrontPage first come out? Why would they start now. Not that anyone else has been able to get WYSIWYG HTML editing right, but at least Dreamweaver MX leaves existing HTML alone.

  • User profile image
    Manip

    Tell someone who cares http://www.macromedia.com 


  • User profile image
    CplCarrot

    I saw Scott Guthrie demo the Beta of VS 2005 and he made a point of including as part of the demo that HTML was NOT screwed up by the IDE and in fact they have made significant steps to improve the way it does format code.

    From memory you can set up rules for all code formatting at a very granular level and these rules are held in an XML config file so they can be used by many developers to get a consistant look.


     

    Charlie

  • User profile image
    miies

    CplCarrot wrote:

    From memory you can set up rules for all code formatting at a very granular level and these rules are held in an XML config file so they can be used by many developers to get a consistant look.


    Sounds good. Can't wait..

  • User profile image
    Tommi

    Yep, I know we can all expect to see that in VS.NET 2005, but everyone knows that developers -still- need to work with VS.NET 2003 for quite a while, so what makes it so difficult to simply patch the autoformat functions in the old VS.NET?

    VS.NET 2005 is still in beta and it's surely going to take a while before we see the final (non-beta) VS.NET 2005 on our desk.

  • User profile image
    ZippyV

    Can someone from the vs.net team react on this?

  • User profile image
    Tommi

    ZippyV wrote:
    Can someone from the vs.net team react on this?


    I would also like to hear their comments. I wonder if any people from their VS.NET team is on Channel9?

  • User profile image
    ZippyV

    It looks like Channel 9 is already abandoned by Microsoft.

  • User profile image
    Sampy

    I'm not on the ASP .Net team but I am on the VB team. Anything I say on this, though, is pure speculation.

    VS is a complex eco-system. Something that seems simple to fix from the outside may not be that way on the inside and things that look complex can be really tough to change. Also, since every version of VS .Net targets the same version of the CLR that it shipped with and only that version, we have available all the new whiz-bang features of the CLR as well as access to all the work done by other teams (if ASP .Net writes a cool uploading subsystem that handles http, ftp, unc, local, etc. and offers a nifty new browse dialog then other teams my use that component). VS is very interconnected and makes use of MS development technology pretty extensively.

    What I'm getting at is you don't know how many of these new features the improvements in HTML formatting used. If it's written in managed code (which I would guess that it is) then it could use generics, anonymous methods, different access level properties, etc. Maybe it takes advantage of some new .Net libraries that are only in Whidbey. Porting it back to 2003 could not only be hard, it could be impossible.

    Also, remember that at the end of the day we are selling a product and we have to get that out the door. If the ASP .Net team took a month and back ported this feature then they would either start slipping on our release date or be forced to drop features from Whidbey. Also, the more features we backport the less incentive people have to move up to Whidbey. If we backported this (assuming it was possible) then the floodgates would open; why not backport Master Pages? Snap lines in winforms? DataGridView?

    I think that everyone wins if we backport the critical stuff but focus on getting the next version out the door. I don't make these kinds of decisions but this seems to be feature level work rather than a bug fix and features usually belong in new versions.

  • User profile image
    miies

    I disagree also.

    Sampy, you talk about 'backporting' while Whidbey isn't even out yet? Sure, for you it seems like moving back to a previous version, but I (and a lot of other developers) use VS2003 NOW and have to cope with (sometimes very) annoying bugs. Agreed, Whidbey will be here soon, but what am I supposed to do in the meantime? I have to pay the rent too..

    I completely understand the difficult architecture that .NET must be, but I don't understand why some people can't be assigned to fix some bugs in current versions. The same is done for Windows, right? You couldn't have told all WinXP users to wait for Longhorn because building SP2 is too difficult.

  • User profile image
    LazyCoder

    Gotta disagree with you there Sampy. The HTML formatting we are complaining about is most certainly NOT a feature.

    Let's put it this way, if Word moved your paragraphs around on the page every time you looked at the document in "Print Preview" mode would fixing that be a bug fix or a new feature. Are you claiming that "Doesn't mess up your code." is a feature? It's analogous to a bug in the IDE that would remove the semi-colons from all your statements or move your buttons to different locations on the form in WinForms class when you switch back and forth from design and code view. Actually it's worse than that because it sometimes makes the page incompatible with the DOCTYPE.

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