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Dual Monitor NATIVE

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  • User profile image
    CKurt

    Okay,

    Why doen't Vista support a taskbar that is split over 2 monitors by default ? Every Video I see here shows people at microsoft using multiple monitors (even Bill G) but the taskbar doesn't strech Sad

    Does anybody know a good program that makes this possible ?

  • User profile image
    Cannot​Resolve​Symbol

    Because it's annoying Wink

    Ultramon will give you two taskbars, each managing whatever's on the same screen.

  • User profile image
    Human​Compiler

    I've always thought this sucked too, but I've gotten used to it.

    Just curious, how many apps are open on your taskbar usually?  I only have 6 or 7 things usually.  A widescreen monitor as your main monitor makes it almost a non-issue too.

  • User profile image
    SlackmasterK

    I'm pretty sure it stretches if you put your monitors in Span mode.  On my multimon config, I keep the Taskbar docked to the left pane of the far left screen and stretch it out about 500px. 

  • User profile image
    Typhoon87

    SlackmasterK said:
    I'm pretty sure it stretches if you put your monitors in Span mode.  On my multimon config, I keep the Taskbar docked to the left pane of the far left screen and stretch it out about 500px. 
    This is something that should definatly be fixed for windows 7, If I am not mistaken Windows has nativly supported multimonitors since Windows 98 and there still are no real benefits such as taskbar stretching, have this app always open on monitor two it is present, have sidebar show on 1 or 2 (for vista). It seems like we are getting ripped off.

  • User profile image
    K0ogle

    HumanCompiler said:
    I've always thought this sucked too, but I've gotten used to it.

    Just curious, how many apps are open on your taskbar usually?  I only have 6 or 7 things usually.  A widescreen monitor as your main monitor makes it almost a non-issue too.
    "Every Video I see here shows people at microsoft using multiple monitors (even Bill G) but the taskbar doesn't strech"

    yeah i've noticed it aswel... *hand to head*.. you'd think people at MS would be ontop of better productivity issues..and have like the most kitted out desktops with all the wizzbang shortcuts and apps with uber fast workflows.. but not so, you get the feeling most MS people aren't power users at all..  and tbh anyone using IE7 vanilla as a main browser, its a bit of a laugh really.   Its all to clear the real talent and improving on windows is done by just one man coders and small studios. Lets just hope MS doesn't ever lose those developers to OSX cus Windows would be screwed! It just wouldn't be the same if there wasn't dozen applications and addons to install and customize after a fresh format just to take care of the basic stuff Smiley not even going into the productivty applications that help you get whatever job you do done.

    And I think it would be pretty stupid not use ultramon for the extra taskbar when using dual monitors... if you knew about it, i guess not everyone thinks about looking around for tools that do a better job of things...  I also use few vbs scripts with ultramon aswel..  most used one is swap primary and secondary monitor.. but thats mainly just for gaming..  very few games allow you to set which display adapter it uses to render too for fullscreen gaming anymore..  and as  I can't stand gaming on * current lcd technology(poor low refresh rates(60,75pfff ), and blocky custom resolutions unless you use the native res) its back to the good old crt monitor with the faster refresh rates.
     
    another taskbar improvement is True Launch Bar.. which i've used for years now.. rarely ever use the start menu as my installed applications and folder shortcuts are all added into quick launch menus..  have to wonder if just TLB & Ultramon weren't around would MS have have improved on the quick launch feature for Vista or added offered a 2nd taskbar when 2 monitors were running -minus any of the other customization stuff .. I doubt it..  and even the vista start menu is a bit of joke for a so called improvement imo. just the bare bare minimum improvements.


    "Just curious, how many apps are open on your taskbar usually?  I only have 6 or 7 things usually.  A widescreen monitor as your main monitor makes it almost a non-issue too."

    widescreen makes it a non-issue... Perplexed yeah right, I have 7 things running on the taskbar right now not counting inactive apps and 3 explorer folders, widescreen lcd@ 1920x... and thats pretty much filled my taskbar before it starts resizing the taskbar items, and i'm not even doing the work I would normaly do during the day, when having another monitor to shift windows onto helps to have in view.. otherwise it just sits there with winamp ml open Smiley 

    other * areas of dual monitors is the shity .wmv codec and in general video playback issues i've had with dual monitors.. and even without a 2nd display running...wmv is the worst for playback/scrubbing after that crappy quicktime & .mov format. 

    I think for everything else it isn't really much of problem with dual monitors and more just an issue with windows poor assed improvements to help with graphic api's like opengl and direct3d on windows.. areas like using dual monitors for 3d applications like maya(opengl) and others just suck when used over dual monitors, you could shift the blame onto gfx hardware like nvidia  and the drivers.. but tbh I think Microsoft are just slacking when they should be pushing for more improvements in those areas...  and then there is always that alt-tab problem with windows games that take bloody ages to get back to the windows desktop..  Could say in general there is hell of lot of work Microsoft could be doing to improve gfx/display technology on windows..  and when you hear about touch screen and wpf  it doesn't exactly seem like they are addressing any of the existing issues, bit of joke really.

    anyway rants over.. maybe when more people start using dual monitors, more might be done to improve it and in general software support for it. Will be interesting to see what has and hasn't been worked on with Win7 OS.

  • User profile image
    SlackmasterK

    K0ogle said:
    HumanCompiler said:
    *snip*
    "Every Video I see here shows people at microsoft using multiple monitors (even Bill G) but the taskbar doesn't strech"

    yeah i've noticed it aswel... *hand to head*.. you'd think people at MS would be ontop of better productivity issues..and have like the most kitted out desktops with all the wizzbang shortcuts and apps with uber fast workflows.. but not so, you get the feeling most MS people aren't power users at all..  and tbh anyone using IE7 vanilla as a main browser, its a bit of a laugh really.   Its all to clear the real talent and improving on windows is done by just one man coders and small studios. Lets just hope MS doesn't ever lose those developers to OSX cus Windows would be screwed! It just wouldn't be the same if there wasn't dozen applications and addons to install and customize after a fresh format just to take care of the basic stuff Smiley not even going into the productivty applications that help you get whatever job you do done.

    And I think it would be pretty stupid not use ultramon for the extra taskbar when using dual monitors... if you knew about it, i guess not everyone thinks about looking around for tools that do a better job of things...  I also use few vbs scripts with ultramon aswel..  most used one is swap primary and secondary monitor.. but thats mainly just for gaming..  very few games allow you to set which display adapter it uses to render too for fullscreen gaming anymore..  and as  I can't stand gaming on * current lcd technology(poor low refresh rates(60,75pfff ), and blocky custom resolutions unless you use the native res) its back to the good old crt monitor with the faster refresh rates.
     
    another taskbar improvement is True Launch Bar.. which i've used for years now.. rarely ever use the start menu as my installed applications and folder shortcuts are all added into quick launch menus..  have to wonder if just TLB & Ultramon weren't around would MS have have improved on the quick launch feature for Vista or added offered a 2nd taskbar when 2 monitors were running -minus any of the other customization stuff .. I doubt it..  and even the vista start menu is a bit of joke for a so called improvement imo. just the bare bare minimum improvements.


    "Just curious, how many apps are open on your taskbar usually?  I only have 6 or 7 things usually.  A widescreen monitor as your main monitor makes it almost a non-issue too."

    widescreen makes it a non-issue... Perplexed yeah right, I have 7 things running on the taskbar right now not counting inactive apps and 3 explorer folders, widescreen lcd@ 1920x... and thats pretty much filled my taskbar before it starts resizing the taskbar items, and i'm not even doing the work I would normaly do during the day, when having another monitor to shift windows onto helps to have in view.. otherwise it just sits there with winamp ml open Smiley 

    other * areas of dual monitors is the shity .wmv codec and in general video playback issues i've had with dual monitors.. and even without a 2nd display running...wmv is the worst for playback/scrubbing after that crappy quicktime & .mov format. 

    I think for everything else it isn't really much of problem with dual monitors and more just an issue with windows poor assed improvements to help with graphic api's like opengl and direct3d on windows.. areas like using dual monitors for 3d applications like maya(opengl) and others just suck when used over dual monitors, you could shift the blame onto gfx hardware like nvidia  and the drivers.. but tbh I think Microsoft are just slacking when they should be pushing for more improvements in those areas...  and then there is always that alt-tab problem with windows games that take bloody ages to get back to the windows desktop..  Could say in general there is hell of lot of work Microsoft could be doing to improve gfx/display technology on windows..  and when you hear about touch screen and wpf  it doesn't exactly seem like they are addressing any of the existing issues, bit of joke really.

    anyway rants over.. maybe when more people start using dual monitors, more might be done to improve it and in general software support for it. Will be interesting to see what has and hasn't been worked on with Win7 OS.
    iWow, that's a very well-considered, but somewhat poorly-organized rant. Let me see if I can sort out your major areas of concern:

    you'd think people at MS would be ontop of better productivity issues..and have like the most kitted out desktops with all the wizzbang shortcuts and apps with uber fast workflows..

    They are on top of it: Two Screens are Better than One.  Channel9 did a video on Microsoft Research's VIBE Lab four years ago.  Several of their projects, including GroupBar, have been released for download.  However, I do agree that other companies have made bigger advances in the Multi-monitor field (i.e. RealTimeSoft).

    Unfortunately, you're also right.  I've noticed a distinct lack of support for those of us who are really technically inclined (I hate to use the term, but "Power Users").  The problem is that Microsoft is held back by the 95% of users who don't understand how to do this stuff (And whom Microsoft must still support. That's where the money is.).  They're really good at OOBE, but IMHO really bad at providing options, settings, customization, and all those other things that we have third party tools for.  The reason for that is because the vast majority of the userbase doesn't need or want those options. They want it to "just work". 

    "And I think it would be pretty stupid not use ultramon for the extra taskbar when using dual monitors... if you knew about it, i guess not everyone thinks about looking around for tools that do a better job of things..."

    Generic Forum Image Bah. The problem with "Smart Taskbar" is having to look on every screen for the window you're looking for.  In the image here, you can see my desk (Before the Great Lab Reorganization of 2008; it looks like this now). On the farthest-left screen, you can see my one taskbar (Though it's wider now). When I have 30 windows open, they're still all in one place.

    Imagine if, when looking for an instance of Visual Studio, I had to check the taskbars on each individual screen.

    Man, I've had that keyboard for over a year.  I should look at upgrading.  Something with clicky keys... Däs Keyboard? I guess I'll see...

    I've been using Ultramon for years... Though the only feature I've found useful is the wallpaper tool... Too lazy to do the math and photoshop it myself, and my monitor #1 is seldom the one furthest left... But I digress.


    "its back to the good old crt monitor with the faster refresh rates."

    Wow. I've played games ranging from Starcraft (640x480) to COD4 on my HP f2105, and I've never had any problems. In fact to my knowledge the human eye can't even detect motion greater than 60FPS (Hz?).

    wmv is the worst for playback/scrubbing after that crappy quicktime & .mov format.

    I'll agree with that point, assuming you adjust it to say "Quicktime, Real, and ASF". I've always been a big fan of AVI. It's a widely-accepted standard and every system comes with support for it. The only caveat is that Windows comes with crappy codecs, but I digress.
     
    areas like using dual monitors for 3d applications like maya(opengl) and others just suck when used over dual monitors

    Really? I use Rhino3D v2.0 for all my 3D Modeling needs, and it stretches across any number of my screens easily. The only problem I encounter is the app positions the ViewPorts at specific distances and it's hard to line them up with the monitor bezels.
     
    then there is always that alt-tab problem with windows games that take bloody ages to get back to the windows desktop..

    Really? Maybe your game is using all the physical memory and Windows has to swap it back out. My only problem is that games aren't coded to allow you to remain full-screen when you switch out. Why can't they work like WinAmp?

    [edit]: image no longer "to the right"; some formatting loss occured in the post.  Thanks, C9 team.

  • User profile image
    K0ogle

    SlackmasterK said:
    K0ogle said:
    *snip*
    iWow, that's a very well-considered, but somewhat poorly-organized rant. Let me see if I can sort out your major areas of concern:

    you'd think people at MS would be ontop of better productivity issues..and have like the most kitted out desktops with all the wizzbang shortcuts and apps with uber fast workflows..

    They are on top of it: Two Screens are Better than One.  Channel9 did a video on Microsoft Research's VIBE Lab four years ago.  Several of their projects, including GroupBar, have been released for download.  However, I do agree that other companies have made bigger advances in the Multi-monitor field (i.e. RealTimeSoft).

    Unfortunately, you're also right.  I've noticed a distinct lack of support for those of us who are really technically inclined (I hate to use the term, but "Power Users").  The problem is that Microsoft is held back by the 95% of users who don't understand how to do this stuff (And whom Microsoft must still support. That's where the money is.).  They're really good at OOBE, but IMHO really bad at providing options, settings, customization, and all those other things that we have third party tools for.  The reason for that is because the vast majority of the userbase doesn't need or want those options. They want it to "just work". 

    "And I think it would be pretty stupid not use ultramon for the extra taskbar when using dual monitors... if you knew about it, i guess not everyone thinks about looking around for tools that do a better job of things..."

    Generic Forum Image Bah. The problem with "Smart Taskbar" is having to look on every screen for the window you're looking for.  In the image here, you can see my desk (Before the Great Lab Reorganization of 2008; it looks like this now). On the farthest-left screen, you can see my one taskbar (Though it's wider now). When I have 30 windows open, they're still all in one place.

    Imagine if, when looking for an instance of Visual Studio, I had to check the taskbars on each individual screen.

    Man, I've had that keyboard for over a year.  I should look at upgrading.  Something with clicky keys... Däs Keyboard? I guess I'll see...

    I've been using Ultramon for years... Though the only feature I've found useful is the wallpaper tool... Too lazy to do the math and photoshop it myself, and my monitor #1 is seldom the one furthest left... But I digress.


    "its back to the good old crt monitor with the faster refresh rates."

    Wow. I've played games ranging from Starcraft (640x480) to COD4 on my HP f2105, and I've never had any problems. In fact to my knowledge the human eye can't even detect motion greater than 60FPS (Hz?).

    wmv is the worst for playback/scrubbing after that crappy quicktime & .mov format.

    I'll agree with that point, assuming you adjust it to say "Quicktime, Real, and ASF". I've always been a big fan of AVI. It's a widely-accepted standard and every system comes with support for it. The only caveat is that Windows comes with crappy codecs, but I digress.
     
    areas like using dual monitors for 3d applications like maya(opengl) and others just suck when used over dual monitors

    Really? I use Rhino3D v2.0 for all my 3D Modeling needs, and it stretches across any number of my screens easily. The only problem I encounter is the app positions the ViewPorts at specific distances and it's hard to line them up with the monitor bezels.
     
    then there is always that alt-tab problem with windows games that take bloody ages to get back to the windows desktop..

    Really? Maybe your game is using all the physical memory and Windows has to swap it back out. My only problem is that games aren't coded to allow you to remain full-screen when you switch out. Why can't they work like WinAmp?

    [edit]: image no longer "to the right"; some formatting loss occured in the post.  Thanks, C9 team.
    "They are on top of it: Two Screens are Better than One.  Channel9 did a video on Microsoft Research's VIBE Lab four years ago.  Several of their projects, including GroupBar, have been released for download.  However, I do agree that other companies have made bigger advances in the Multi-monitor field (i.e. RealTimeSoft)."

    you're killing me.. its a bloody laugh..if thats the effort they made.. especially that GroupBar.. i tried it at some point on xp before..  i think it could have had potential if anyone had bothered to really work on improving it...  but who wants to use default luna blue.. absolute junk now anyway.

    "Wow. I've played games ranging from Starcraft (640x480) to COD4 on my HP f2105, and I've never had any problems. In fact to my knowledge the human eye can't even detect motion greater than 60FPS (Hz?)."

    wtf ofc humans can see more than 60fps.. and for fast action games especialy in fps type of games it really is a difference..  but i think todays industry has gone a bit backwards with the whole lcd technology taking things back to 60hz.. I mean now you even have the likes of ID software sayings 60fps and 60hz is enough.. bullshit imo.. its just easier on the cross platform pipeline to make games and chune out games for the pc and crappy consoles at the same time where 60hz lcd panels are the norm in homes and you only have to make sure you're game reaches the 60fps point. why optimize more when current 'latest technology' has made it easier to just put a limit on it Smiley

    btw 100hz, 100fps vertical sync on..  yup i have a clear advantage, fps ownge all the way home.. and there is a difference in motion/fluidity betwen 60hz and 100hz+.. if you wanted to know there is even a difference in the average mouse polling rate of 125hz.. and say 500hz.. ofc if you're using a lcd at 60hz you won't really notice the smoothness at all.. compare it directly at 100hz crt side by side.. yup real smooth.. and it does make a difference in accuracy not just in games btw.. also don't forget lcd panels still aren't nearly as fast as crt in terms of response and input lag.

    http://www.behardware.com/articles/632-1/lcd-retard-affichage-crt-oui.html
     

    "Imagine if, when looking for an instance of Visual Studio, I had to check the taskbars on each individual screen. "

    can't really comment on the setup as ur site isn't working properly.. but imo looking at the screen an application is already on and looking directly below at the taskbar is mucho easier. And even if it was just a minized app on the taskbar of another screen.. i still wouldn't have a problem with that. why have tiny little taskbar tabs all squezzed up on a mainscreen.. waste more time in not being able to see to see the full folder/application name title imo.


    "Really? I use Rhino3D v2.0 for all my 3D Modeling needs, and it stretches across any number of my screens easily. The only problem I encounter is the app positions the ViewPorts at specific distances and it's hard to line them up with the monitor bezels.
    "

    the keyword here is stretches.. which makes me think you must be using horizontal spanning.. which is only worth using if the monitors you have attached to the video card(s) are using the same resolution and better the same refresh rate. Where as i use dualview.. in which each display is kept seperate.. and can use different resolutions and refresh speeds.. so if moved an app onto my 2nd display and maxised it.. it would maximise only on that 2nd display.  In the case of Maya.. its not just the viewports that use opengl acceleration.. its also other windows like the material editor and afew commonly used one which use opengl aswel.. this bit sucks as its far more productive to have those other windows on the 2nd display away from the viewport.. it doesn't work though as the app is run from the 1st display adapter.. and so moving those onto the 2nd display doesn't function properly. A software or a gfx hardware level problem that could be improved on.. i dunno, i'm sure nvidia would find it easier to market higher benchmark scores than come up with better features and improvements... but its not the only area and situation where running dualview isn't exactly as good as it should be. Which def means in the future i'd have to get a another widescreen 24" or same resolution capable display just to use the not so great horizontal span mode.

    tbh I wish I could just buy another 24" lcd that really was as fast and as good as the crt i have next to my current 24" lcd one but I won't ever until lcd technology really starts improving. Which might be a while it seems as the average consumer can't seem to tell the difference in display speeds and its easier to market/review lcds and just talk about the color palette & depth.

    "Really? Maybe your game is using all the physical memory and Windows has to swap it back out. My only problem is that games aren't coded to allow you to remain full-screen when you switch out."

    yeah tbh I'd buy that myself if it wasn't for the fact that if you run the game in windowed mode, things just run super smooth and faster tab around to various applications and then heading back into the game with no delay.and out again Smiley 

     fullscreen gaming in general has sucked * on windows for way to long! and i think we've already heard from game developers that microsoft should be doing more to help(i think a recent blizzard interview is one).. but i'm sure they are too busy milking the xblock gaming crowd.

     http://www.playxpert.com/

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