Coffeehouse Thread

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My prediction: Channel 9 dead within the year

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  • User profile image
    rhm

    I think channel 9 will be gone by the end of the year. If not the whole site then the forums will be removed. We're told that PR reviews the tapes that are put up, but I find it hard to believe they or anyone in senior management has ever looked at the site itself.

    I understand that many companies permit a certain amount of negative comments on their forums in the interests of balance and getting feedback, but to allow a small number of users(*) to add slashdot-esque anti-microsoft rants to every single thread is not just bad for Microsoft's image, but it makes the site pretty much useless for everyone else. Take the recent comments threads for the videos of Suzanne Cook - any on-topic comments were completely drowned out by GNU-FUD from someone who professes to have Microsoft so much they'll never use any of their products again and yet spends so much time logged onto this site that this is the first time in days I've been logged on when they weren't.

    Are the moderators of this site actually going to moderate it, or are they going to wait until management realise what's going on here, comment "and we're paying to put this crap on the web?", and then pull the plug?

    --
    * one is a small number.

  • User profile image
    Rossj

    rhm wrote:
    I think channel 9 will be gone by the end of the year. If not the whole site then the forums will be removed. We're told that PR reviews the tapes that are put up, but I find it hard to believe they or anyone in senior management has ever looked at the site itself.

    I understand that many companies permit a certain amount of negative comments on their forums in the interests of balance and getting feedback, but to allow a small number of users(*) to add slashdot-esque anti-microsoft rants to every single thread is not just bad for Microsoft's image, but it makes the site pretty much useless for everyone else. Take the recent comments threads for the videos of Suzanne Cook - any on-topic comments were completely drowned out by GNU-FUD.

    Are the moderators of this site actually going to moderate it, or are they going to wait until management realize what's going on here, comment "and we're paying to put this crap on the web?", and pull the plug?


    The problem is that if you don't allow dissenting voices, then this site will truly become the Anti-Slashdot.

  • User profile image
    rhm

    Rossj wrote:

    The problem is that if you don't allow dissenting voices, then this site will truly become the Anti-Slashdot.


    No it won't. I don't see any people showing MS so much love they want to have Bill G's babies and in the opposite direction I don't see many anti-Linux comments. Mostly what I see is reasonable comments about MS and their products and then some completely unreasonable ranting. All I'm saying is the unreasonable stuff needs to be moderated.

  • User profile image
    AndyC

    Give someone enough rope and sooner or later they'll hang themselves.

    It would be bad to start censoring ideas just because they don't follow party-line. The minute you start down that road, Channel 9 is already dead. It becomes nothing but a propaganda machine, spouting corporate policy and achieving nothing by doing so.

    There will always be those who feel the need to turn any discussion onto the subject of their personal crusade. That is the price of a free thinking community.

    If they are unable to see how such blind faith devalues their opinion on other matters, that is their loss. In a perfect world everyone would open their mind to every possibility and judge ideas and concepts on merit alone. We don't live in a perfect world, so you just have to deal with what we've got.

    </rant>

    A little tale, with some relevance here:

    http://www.storyarts.org/library/aesops/stories/boy.html

  • User profile image
    ZippyV

    Who are we talking about?

  • User profile image
    Simo

    My two penneth...

    I'd be happy to leave in the religous-style ranting. I trust people to see it for what it is.

    The rule I now try to stick to in C9 is "Don't feed the trolls".

    Occasionaly I slip up, but don't we all. And in this regard we are all mods.

    Charles, Lenn, Scoble will be the first to remind us it's our community, and that we decide what's acceptable. And I kinda appreciate a forum that's not modded by a bunch geeks with an agenda.

  • User profile image
    will

    I wouldn't worry too much about Channel9 forums disappearing.

    Although, I feel it has been less active compared to when it first launched.

    I think the PR/marketing guys do allow the Channel 9 Team a fair bit of "do what you like, but within common sense limits".

    And I also think, ok, so the content is hosted by Microsoft, it does not mean they have to agree with what is posted by the community which frequents and posts on the boards.

    The only worry is what would happen if all the users left?

    If there was no one at all to leave comments, make conversation. What effect would that do to the community?

    Guess same goes with any community, if the community members all leave for some reason, then you no longer actually have a community, do you?

    Having been a channel9 member not long after the initial launch, I have to say, they have gone through a lot.

    And the moderators have generally done a good job.

    They have not over moderated, which can only be a good thing for freedom of speech, right?

    There have been some members who go over the top in the past, and no longer post.

    Honestly, I think that they are doing a good job on channel9.

    In the end, the members of the community will shape the community. This is true for almost any community out there.

    The members will drive things to a certain extent.

    Communities that grow dynamically through their members, as opposed to being forced upon them have a stronger chance of survival over a longer period of time.

  • User profile image
    gswitz

    It's gutsy of Microsoft to let this site exist at all. Don't think for a second they didn't see coming what's here now. Microsoft is willing to take some nocks. They're playing and creating. Maybe they don't care if you do or don't like it. They seem to care for the opinions of some, and this is the place they can hear from those non-MVPs who make livings using their tools.

    This is a great place for all of us. I don't think it's going anywhere. I don't have much trouble at all sorting out the chaff of the site (Isn't that what WIKIs for?).

    Best,

    G

  • User profile image
    Rossj

    My bigger worry is that C9 will die through lack of love from Microsoft. 

    Not having been here when it was in its heyday I can only speculate, but maybe it is the lack of a conversational aspect?  Sure people in the community talk on the forums but there are maybe half a dozen 'softies that post regularly in response to questions, out of 57,000 employees.

    At some point I think people are going to get bored of asking questions or starting conversations with no response from anyone within Microsoft. There is little enough input from the 5 members of the C9 team barring Charles who seems to spend a lot of time around here helping out and moderating.  I am not trying to imply that they do nothing but more input would be useful.  Maybe it is time to give the marketing gig for C9 to Steve Rubel, because at the moment C9 is getting maybe one or two new members each week and losing another.

  • User profile image
    Dr. Shim

    rhm wrote:
    Take the recent comments threads for the videos of Suzanne Cook - any on-topic comments were completely drowned out by GNU-FUD from someone who professes to have Microsoft so much they'll never use any of their products again and yet spends so much time logged onto this site that this is the first time in days I've been logged on when they weren't.


    That's called "thread hijacking." I agree with you that this is a problem. A couple of my threads have been hijacked before, which wasn't fun. I'd like to see comments which are more on-topic.

    Also, I do not agree that this will become, as I understood it, a uncontrollably chaotic forum. I believe that the admins here are determined enough to keep this place going, and actually listen to what we have to say, and that in itself will keep Channel 9 going. There are a lot of guests lingering around, but find it useless to join in a discussion. That has to be fixed.

  • User profile image
    MisterDonut

    I think it will remain, forums and all. Microsoft needs good press. They need a good public image, which they really don't have. They're trying, and I hope they succeed, but I don't think they're cutting it. Longhorn has features removed, dates pushed back, etc. (Probably justified, but they've still let us down). Microsoft UI doesn't cut it.. Microsoft really has lost the "cool" factor in terms of ordinary end users. One could argue it never had it.

    I do which them the best of luck. And really hope they prove me wrong. I'd love to eat my words.

  • User profile image
    TomasDeml

    I just wonder why these "GNU Guys" visit C9...
    Do they have to express their ANTI-MS opinions 'everywhere', even here on C9?!

    I'm sorry to say, but go back to your 'LINUX' fanclub forums and critize MS there, where you will likely find many listeners.

    I think C9 is here mainly for "MS fans" Smiley

  • User profile image
    Arran

    MisterDonut wrote:
    Longhorn has features removed, dates pushed back, etc. (Probably justified, but they've still let us down).


    This may be a bit off topic but i do find it quite interesting when microsoft gets slagged off (MisterDonut: I am not talking about you here) for delaying a feature of longhorn (or any other (pre)beta product).  If microsoft were not trying to be more open and give developers a bit of a heads up you would not have known much about WinFs in the first place.  MS could just keep everything private until a lot closer to the release but they dont.  If they did then they would never get any bad press about this sort of thing...but then again if they did that everyone would complain they are not being transparent enough or giving developers a long enough view into future products.

    Cant have it both ways...

  • User profile image
    eagle

    MisterDonut wrote:
    I'd love to eat my words.


    I’d love to eat one or three of those donuts!

     


    The computer fad is just about over, their not good for much.

    The abacus and the stone tablet can do the job much better, has anyone ever lost a file on a stone tablet?  

  • User profile image
    Rossj

    eagle wrote:
    MisterDonut wrote: I'd love to eat my words.


    I’d love to eat one or three of those donuts!

     


    The computer fad is just about over, their not good for much.

    The abacus and the stone tablet can do the job much better, has anyone ever lost a file on a stone tablet?  


    You are right on this one Paul, why save data on magnetic media that can be lost forever by rubbing it up and down a magnet, we should be carving stuff into rock to last for 10s of thousands of years Smiley

  • User profile image
    Manip

    I really CBA to read the above posts so I'll just say this -

    C9 will be around in a year and growing, with the launch of so many new Microsoft products coming up people are going to start to get excited about Microsoft again. They will come to channel 9 and we can all sit back and watch as one new toy is released after another.

    I could sit here and compare negative comments and channel 9 to democracy but I'm not going to ... I could also say allowing negative comments will help Microsoft throw off their 'Evil Empire' image but I'm not going to.

    Instead I would like to say - I don't think anything I have read on C9 has made me respect MS the company LESS. I have however gained a deeper understanding of what it takes to make a product and why Microsoft can't just release something without testing it.

    C9 does offer something very unique which you simply can't get on newsgroups, blogs or wikkies .. a since of community, a respect for one another and to allow people in this community to discuss new ideas, new projects and for all to gain a greater appreciation for what the 'other side' does.

     

  • User profile image
    jsrfc58

    eagle wrote:

    The computer fad is just about over, their not good for much.

    The abacus and the stone tablet can do the job much better, has anyone ever lost a file on a stone tablet?  


    No, but tablets can be broken (just ask Moses).  I'm sure even a PC tablet can be broken if you throw it hard enough.  Although I hear that a blog recently started up for a new "wrist sundial" (who needs a Spot watch anyway).  I guess the site has an RSS feed and everything. Available in sandstone and granite versions.

  • User profile image
    Sabot

    HM2C ...

    I believe Microsoft will keep C9 warts and all. The forums is actually great, come out of your RSS readers and onto the site via a browser (I know it's rare these days) and you will notice how many people read the articles posted, often hundreds if not thousands sometimes.

    C9 is still very new, it's message is still going around and will attrach more and more individuals.

    The best marketing is obviously the real people at Microsoft, none of them have horns from what I can see in the videos and the insight is just so invaluable. I bet more and more Microsoft guys will come on the forum once they are sure it's okay to do so, so be patient. Remember, the story of Mark Jen recently at Google is abit of a set back and confidence will have been knocked.

    The Anti-MS guys and Linux guys as far as I can see it are more than welcome, they only have to spend sometime with us to realise that developers are all pretty much the same the world over. Personal choice is very important and is the mother of all innovations. Linux, Windows, Java, .Net it's all personal choice or right nut for the right bolt and the Linux guys actually know that much better than we do. Beer28 is always coming up with suggestions, he is a pain in the backside admittedly but 'sometimes' he has a good idea (wheat in the chaff perhaps??? Wink he just provoke discussion ... and this is the point.

    As for the guys who decided to witness on our forum, that was unfortuate but it takes alsorts to make a forum and alsorts to make a world go round. Most people had enough common sense to realise what it was. I'm not for any more rules, but happy to discuss.

    So guys/girls keep it coming ...



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