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View Thread: Do you find WPF to be unnatural / unlogical?
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    , vesuvius wrote

    The truth of the matter is that it takes a long time to get an application framework right. It was like that with Winforms, and that contained a few new controls, but a lot of the functionaity was a wrapper around the Win32 API (tell you some thing you did not know already)

    WPF will probably reach a satisfactory level of stability and usability in the next couple of versions. after that we will move onto the next big thing. I am currently working with DevExpress controls - not through choice mind - and boy are we coming across some bugs. Each time we update the controls, a few days are lost in the development tracing down bugs, so it really is prefable to tackle projects with something like Winforms, where most of the issues are sorted out, and all the bugs are known with workarounds or avoids.

    I think a lot of people need to step out into the real world, away from hobby projects and into the world of producing software for companies and you will find uptake of WPF pretty high.

    I am constantly turning work down, because recruitment agencies cannot find enough people with modern .NET 4.0 skills so there is a marked difference between the hypothetical bashing and FUD in this thread, and the real world. I don't hope to convince or see any placation of this fact, but WPF is gaining traction, and a lot of applications are creating experiences that would be otherwise impossible.

    I cannot point you to any examples because of the nature of the clients but trust me WPF is kicking backsides, and in the next few years something ubiquitous will arrive, it's just that in the world we live in all the essential tools like downloaders, browsers etc were already written, so visibility for the Bass type people will be non-existant hence the supposition of low uptake.


    So you are saying that WPF is very popular internally? I suppose that could be true, but in the realm of shrink wrapped software we are seeing nothing.

    Than again I don't see much Winforms stuff out there either, certainly it's more than WPF but you have to consider how many web apps are there vs how many fat clients. A lot of stuff has moved to the web. Even traditional fat client stuff like tax software seems to be moving more to the web. I don't see many fat clients that aren't video games or anti-virus in the stores over here in the US anymore either.

    Going back to internal software (also what I write)..

    I work for a very, very large organization and we have this massive internal wiki with all kinds of info. If you go look for .NET, there is an article on it. But it calls it a "scripting language" and the last time the page was updated was 2007ish.

    Literarly nobody uses .NET where I work, and we are talking possibly one of the largest software engineering nexuses in the world. Does that mean .NET is not being used? Hell no my previous job was all .NET basically. .NET is huge, but you wouldn't think so if all you know is Java. Our personal experiences will bias what we think is popular. Because quite frankly, as a .NET developer, you will likely never qualify for anything but .NET development jobs, unless you want to go entry level all over again.

    So you get this idea that some technology is more popular than it actually is because that's all you see. When I first got into this Java development thing, I was suprised to see so many people used Java. I thought Java was dead. This is probably a typical view of someone who only works in Visual Studio and .NET. You go to conferences and all they talk about is .NET, you do .NET at work, when you go on job interviews they all happen to be .NET because that's what you know.

    Now I go to Java conferences regularly and I don't see any .NET anywhere professionally. Everything is Java, it's the alpha and the omega and no other programming languages exist except those hobbyist ones that cool people like Twitter use and happen to run on the JVM, which is the only supported way to run applications on a computer. To me, .NET looks like a dead technology. Outside of Channel9, I hear absolutely nothing about it. Everything is Java now. But that's obviously not true.

    It works in reverse too. You can make six figures knowing the ins and out of some obscure TIBCO products. You'll never be out of work either.. but it's an obscure TIBCO product. Smiley