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Why is IE so bad?

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  • User profile image
    Pace

    Ive heard people bash IE before but never really understood why, however, now im developing for the web I feel differently. Ive made some skeleton code for an asp.net application for our intranet here. One of the dropdowns uses a webservice to call a stored proc which populates the dropdown with some 20,000 records. Overkill for sure, but its still in development and ive not added filtering just yet. 


    So I run the app in chrome, instantly populates everything I want, neat! Safari, bit of a wait but within a second its there, same with FF. This is a local lan app so im happy with those times.

    Run it in IE8 and its as if the LHC has exploded. The world ends. Aha, thats what you get for running BETA software I say, yet its exactly the same in IE7. It drastically hangs before totally crashing. You could blame my code, you can blame whatever you want. It works in the other browsers and thats the fact. So im just curious as to whats wrong?

    With all the fantastic platforms ms has (VS, Office, SkyDrive, LiveMesh, WPF, SharePoint etc) why does IE let the brand down? I dont like the feel of it, ive not had it as default browser for years. 90% of my users will be using it (to be fair im considering changing them all but you get the idea) 

    What feedback can we give to make the browser like the rest of the microsoft products? Are the IE team just concentrating on RSS features and such? I sure hope not because if you talk to home users the vast majority dont know or even care what RSS is. 

    I just feel considering IE has the largest share that its by far the worst browser. It doesnt feel user friendly to me, it appears crappy to develop against, its slow, its has lots of stuff in there I dont care about so whats the deal? 

    What are the plans for the future? In Windows 7 I would love to see a new browser, not carrying the IE brand name. Put it out to pasture please and make me a browser as great as all your other products. 

    Love, 
    Pacey x

  • User profile image
    Bass

    Years of neglect.

  • User profile image
    harumscarum

    I would think this has more to do with the js engine rather then IE. 

  • User profile image
    AndyC

    There are probably a great many things to complain about with IE, but frankly putting 20,000 items in a drop down is ridiculous. I don't want them to optimise for that scenario because even attempting it is a sign that something isn't right in the app.

  • User profile image
    ManipUni

    AndyC said:
    There are probably a great many things to complain about with IE, but frankly putting 20,000 items in a drop down is ridiculous. I don't want them to optimise for that scenario because even attempting it is a sign that something isn't right in the app.

    Twenty thousand items in a drop down? ...
    And you're bashing IE for not supporting that? ...

    Hell it wouldn't surprise me if the Windows Control didn't support that many. Its such a poor and abusive use of the control. Design better.

  • User profile image
    vesuvius

    Please read this, and all the comments.

  • User profile image
    Pace

    vesuvius said:
    Please read this, and all the comments.
    Ok lets all skip the point that the other browsers are running it fine without issue and IE isnt because im loading 20,000 records. Lets just crit me for loading the 20k instead, because its easier. Even though ive stated it as skeleton code. Ive not even begun to look at adding logic to only return the current records. I was stating an observation during application design and testing, because I find it interesting, because I want to share my thoughts. But apparantly its not an issue, its just me because im sh1t. 

  • User profile image
    AndyC

    Pace said:
    vesuvius said:
    *snip*
    Ok lets all skip the point that the other browsers are running it fine without issue and IE isnt because im loading 20,000 records. Lets just crit me for loading the 20k instead, because its easier. Even though ive stated it as skeleton code. Ive not even begun to look at adding logic to only return the current records. I was stating an observation during application design and testing, because I find it interesting, because I want to share my thoughts. But apparantly its not an issue, its just me because im sh1t. 
    It's not so much that, it's just that you can't really criticise IE for doing something it shouldn't ever need to do.

    For example, you could build a coffee table that could support the weight of an elephant. Some people might even do it. But it's only a coffee table, it only needs to support a few cups of coffee, building it to take the weight of an elephant is probably massively over-engineering it.

  • User profile image
    Pace

    AndyC said:
    Pace said:
    *snip*
    It's not so much that, it's just that you can't really criticise IE for doing something it shouldn't ever need to do.

    For example, you could build a coffee table that could support the weight of an elephant. Some people might even do it. But it's only a coffee table, it only needs to support a few cups of coffee, building it to take the weight of an elephant is probably massively over-engineering it.
    touche' 

    I see your point and completely agree Smiley 

    Thanks

  • User profile image
    ManipUni

    AndyC said:
    Pace said:
    *snip*
    It's not so much that, it's just that you can't really criticise IE for doing something it shouldn't ever need to do.

    For example, you could build a coffee table that could support the weight of an elephant. Some people might even do it. But it's only a coffee table, it only needs to support a few cups of coffee, building it to take the weight of an elephant is probably massively over-engineering it.

    You haven't seen my mother in law :o

    PS - Sorry obvious joke Smiley

  • User profile image
    TommyCarlier

    vesuvius said:
    Please read this, and all the comments.
    Vesuvius, that's irrelevant: a list control (ComboBox, ListBox, ...) with 20,000 items does not have 20,000 handles. The items in the list are (fortunately) not controls.

  • User profile image
    evildictait​or

    AndyC said:
    Pace said:
    *snip*
    It's not so much that, it's just that you can't really criticise IE for doing something it shouldn't ever need to do.

    For example, you could build a coffee table that could support the weight of an elephant. Some people might even do it. But it's only a coffee table, it only needs to support a few cups of coffee, building it to take the weight of an elephant is probably massively over-engineering it.
    On the contrary. You should always criticize an app for failing to do what ought to be possible.

    20,000 items in a combo box isn't all that huge. I would expect for stress testing that IE would have a few pages with a number of such controls on a page, and a total HTML code of 20MB.

    While having 20,000 items in a combo box is a bit unnessisary, and the app probably should not be put live on the web with that many controls, the browser should be able to cope with that kind of number, and even it can't it should be able to fail gracefully. Crashing to the desktop with no explaination is suggestive that the app is badly written.

    Rule #1 of testing: Don't expect users to use your controls in a way that you expected them to use your controls when you designed it.

    Rule #2 of testing: If you allow users to have an arbitrary amount of something, stress test it. If your combo box control has an unbounded number of elements, test it for 0 elements, 10 elements and 1,000,000 elements, because if you don't, some user will, as Pace has just proven.

    IE isn't just an app - it's an app that renders arbitrary pages. It needs to be robust to user input. It needs to be over-engineered.

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