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Apple isn't an 'Evil Empire' Like Microsoft

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  • User profile image
    Ray7

    An interesting point of view, but I think I would disagree with a couple of points.

    Frank Fox said:

    Microsoft did many things in its pursuit of market dominance that turned it into the evil company we know today.

    It used FUD (fear, uncertainty, and doubt) as a tactic to prevent other operating system from gaining a toehold in the PC market. I'm not just talking about just about Linux; before Linux there was OS/2, and before OS/2 there was DR-DOS. Microsoft tried to kill these alternate operating systems.

    Okay, then what would you call the 'PC & Mac' commercials? The thing about FUD is that it only appears to be evil when Microsoft is doing it. Or are we saying that because Apple is smaller than Microsoft, then FUD is okay?


    Frank Fox said:

    It also used its monopoly power in one area to dominate another market. The Windows operating system became a tool to promote sales of Microsoft Office. This bundling successfully knocked out the leading word processor (WordPerfect) and leading spreadsheet (Lotus 1-2-3) from the market. And in a move calculated to ruin Netscape, Microsoft bundled Internet Explorer with Windows - and tied it unnecessarily to the operating system.


    Yes, that is evil. But even thought they bundled IE, is that really as bad as preventing folk from competing with you by preventing them from distributing their podcasting application through the only available outlet? I'm not sure it is.

    Frank Fox said:

    Apple has not interfered with the open market for other devices or services as long as they don't try to free ride on Apple's products or services.


    I don't think the defunct Mac cloner makers would agree.

    Again, I think a lot of this is down to the perception of size. Apple cannot be evil, because it is small and trendy; same goes for Google. What MS still has against it is poor PR and a dodgy past.





  • User profile image
    jamie

    re: those examples of ms evil

    wasnt that just ...the smart thing to do in the situation?


    apple has been really smart recently

    time for ms to get leveraging again!  (windows.com! ha!)

  • User profile image
    Bass

    The interesting thing is Microsoft got hate pretty much since they started in the late 1970s. Look up Bill Gates "Open Letter to Hobbyists". That letter where Bill Gates pretty much accused the the majority of hobbyists of being thieves. This event began to set the tone for hatred of Microsoft. It drew some hash reactions of the company right off the bat. What is not commonly known is Bill Gates actually wrote a second open letter after words, largely apologizing for the accusations in the first.

    Apple on the other hand was from very early on loved and almost worshiped, especially after the release of the Apple II. That's why Apple will never be the "evil empire", even as their market capitalization and size begins to approach Microsoft's. They just don't have the history.

    It all goes right to the core of the companies and their founding philosophies (note: I am not saying anything about actions). I don't think almost anyone predicted Microsoft would be this big in the 80s. Of course you can cheer lead one side one, FOSS/hobbyists, Apple, or Microsoft.  But you can not accurately predict who will win out in the end. Not in this industry.

  • User profile image
    matthews

    jamie said:
    re: those examples of ms evil

    wasnt that just ...the smart thing to do in the situation?


    apple has been really smart recently

    time for ms to get leveraging again!  (windows.com! ha!)

    Honestly, I don't see bundling IE with the OS as leveraging a monopoly. Frankly, people just expect a web browser to come with the OS. How inconvinient would it be for you to install Netscape or Firefox or whatever without simply being able to go to their website?

  • User profile image
    jamie

    matthews said:
    jamie said:
    *snip*
    Honestly, I don't see bundling IE with the OS as leveraging a monopoly. Frankly, people just expect a web browser to come with the OS. How inconvinient would it be for you to install Netscape or Firefox or whatever without simply being able to go to their website?
    and how do you download it without one  lol

    that whole case was a "witch hunt"  ... unfortunately - it seems to have chased all the risk takers out of ms - and there is alot of tiers of aproval now and legal stuff because of it

  • User profile image
    brian.​shapiro

    Actually I think its clear if you look back at the time line,  IE started winning over Netscape only when it became better than Netscape, Media Player over Real Player when it became better, and Office over the WordPerfect and Lotus Suites, because they could never make a decent Windows interface but MS could

  • User profile image
    wisemx

    I've always welcomed Microsoft technologies and inovations, even the takeovers.
    The sort of things that made me cringe where seeing AOL on my system. Curse you DELL. Big Smile

  • User profile image
    gadget

    jamie said:
    matthews said:
    *snip*
    and how do you download it without one  lol

    that whole case was a "witch hunt"  ... unfortunately - it seems to have chased all the risk takers out of ms - and there is alot of tiers of aproval now and legal stuff because of it
    I remember downloading Mozilla through telnet. Then I used Mozilla to download netscape.  And how about before windows had a tcp-ip stack built in or any networking (remember Lantastic ?)

  • User profile image
    jamie

    gadget said:
    jamie said:
    *snip*
    I remember downloading Mozilla through telnet. Then I used Mozilla to download netscape.  And how about before windows had a tcp-ip stack built in or any networking (remember Lantastic ?)
    i remember netware -all machine- startups and winsock loading.. and thats all i CARE to remember haha Smiley

  • User profile image
    harumscarum

    jamie said:
    matthews said:
    *snip*
    and how do you download it without one  lol

    that whole case was a "witch hunt"  ... unfortunately - it seems to have chased all the risk takers out of ms - and there is alot of tiers of aproval now and legal stuff because of it
    Since when do you need a web browser to download things. Why not just have a screen on the install to select a browser.

    MS is still a the king of the desktop OS and as long as they continue to leverage it to include their own software they will be perceived as evil. I think everyone except MS believes Apple is relevant. Different companies, different models, different products. Apple just toys with MS so they seem like they are that important.

  • User profile image
    magicalclick

    harumscarum said:
    jamie said:
    *snip*
    Since when do you need a web browser to download things. Why not just have a screen on the install to select a browser.

    MS is still a the king of the desktop OS and as long as they continue to leverage it to include their own software they will be perceived as evil. I think everyone except MS believes Apple is relevant. Different companies, different models, different products. Apple just toys with MS so they seem like they are that important.
    I think Apple is more evil and more monopolized than MS. The controled app store is a really big example. The only reason Apple doesn't appear to be evil is because Apple is not as rich as MS. Apple is smaller doesn't mean it is any less evil than MS.

    Leaving WM on 5/2018 if no apps, no dedicated billboards where I drive, no Store name.
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  • User profile image
    Dovella

    Thanks to Microsoft we have a technology so advanced low-cost
    Thanks to Microsoft we have a Software for all popular (free trial, Pay Open)

    Thanks to Microsoft we have improved technologies in every sector (infrastructure, hospitals, industries etc etc)
    Microsoft has always supported in every age pricing policies popular

    I want this kind of monopoly direct the whole of my nation (Gates for President)

    All the hatred that people have for Microsoft is only envy
    Every company must create profit
    and Microsoft is the only company that can make profit and satisfy every segment of users according to their possibilities

    What other called monopoly, I call FAMILY
    because Microsoft is a family.





  • User profile image
    Yggdrasil

    harumscarum said:
    jamie said:
    *snip*
    Since when do you need a web browser to download things. Why not just have a screen on the install to select a browser.

    MS is still a the king of the desktop OS and as long as they continue to leverage it to include their own software they will be perceived as evil. I think everyone except MS believes Apple is relevant. Different companies, different models, different products. Apple just toys with MS so they seem like they are that important.
    harumscarum said:
    Why not just have a screen on the install to select a browser.

    Which browsers will you bundle with your OS? Firefox? Which version? Why not Opera? Why not Maxthon? Why is there an older version when the new one is so much better? Is it because MS doesn't want users seeing the good version? Why is Chrome out but Firefox in? Is it a conspiracy? Did Mozilla pay them? DID MOZILLA USE GOOGLE'S MONEY TO PAY OFF MICROSOFT?!!

    See the problem?

  • User profile image
    Dr Herbie

    Frank Fox said:

    This bundling successfully knocked out the leading word processor (WordPerfect) ... from the market


    Nonsense -- what blew WordPerfect from the market was the appalling version of WordPerfect for Windows they relesed around 1992 that was so bug-ridden it was unuseable; I had to use it for a 2 day course in 1992 where it crashed literally every 5 minutes, even when you weren't doing anything complicated.

    Herbie

  • User profile image
    Ray7

    Dr Herbie said:
    Frank Fox said:
    *snip*


    Nonsense -- what blew WordPerfect from the market was the appalling version of WordPerfect for Windows they relesed around 1992 that was so bug-ridden it was unuseable; I had to use it for a 2 day course in 1992 where it crashed literally every 5 minutes, even when you weren't doing anything complicated.

    Herbie
    I remember it well.

    WordPerfect mistakenly believed that their word processor alone was enough to keep the world using DOS. By the time they realised that Windows was the future, they had to rush out a half-baked weird semi-GUI mutant that I had great trouble getting to start up.

    Much of Microsoft's success is down to the howling foul-ups made by the competition. (IBM not having a clue how to sell OS/2 and Apple beleiving that they could flog a desktop to Joe Public for a the price of a car.)

  • User profile image
    JChung2006

    Apple's not terribly threatening compared to Google, in my opinion. Sure, iPods are kicking Zune's *, but they had a large headstart in terms of marketshare and mindshare. WinMo still has iPhone beat for marketshare though obviously iPhones have captured everybody's fancy. Google has more potential to disrupt Microsoft than Apple does.

    Ultimately, Microsoft is its own worst enemy -- the complacency that comes with lack of real competition, the overhead and culture that comes with a very large corporation (90+K strong last I checked), and the inability to bring truly compelling products to market is more devastating than anything Apple or Google does. And when we do a great job, we have to outdo ourselves with the next release, something that's become a bit of a challenge lately now that Moore's Law has shifted gears a bit, and we've released umpteen versions of Windows and Office.

  • User profile image
    Ray7

    harumscarum said:

    Since when do you need a web browser to download things. Why not just have a screen on the install to select a browser.


    The browser has been the most popular way to download stuff for some time now. I can't even remember how I got hold of my first brower, but I think that it was already installed on the machine that landed on my desk ... Smiley

    harumscarum said:

    MS is still a the king of the desktop OS and as long as they continue to leverage it to include their own software they will be perceived as evil.


    As long as they don't stop me running whatever I want to run), then why should I care what they stick on the machine. Disk space is cheap; I can install half a dozen browsers if I want to.

    If they prevent me running stuff, then we have a problem (like Apple and that podcasting app).

  • User profile image
    BlackTiger

    There is only one "evil empire"! And this is ADOBEe.

    If you stumbled and fell down, it doesn't mean yet, that you're going in the wrong direction.
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