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Markets still crashing - Who'se to blame?

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  • User profile image
    phreaks


    According to Bloomberg, Democrats!

    Bloomberg said:

    The clear gravity of the situation pushed the legislation forward. Some might say the current mess couldn't be foreseen, yet in 2005 Alan Greenspan told Congress how urgent it was for it to act in the clearest possible terms: If Fannie and Freddie ``continue to grow, continue to have the low capital that they have, continue to engage in the dynamic hedging of their portfolios, which they need to do for interest rate risk aversion, they potentially create ever-growing potential systemic risk down the road,'' he said. ``We are placing the total financial system of the future at a substantial risk.''

    What happened next was extraordinary. For the first time in history, a serious Fannie and Freddie reform bill was passed by the Senate Banking Committee. The bill gave a regulator power to crack down, and would have required the companies to eliminate their investments in risky assets.

    Different World

    If that bill had become law, then the world today would be different. In 2005, 2006 and 2007, a blizzard of terrible mortgage paper fluttered out of the Fannie and Freddie clouds, burying many of our oldest and most venerable institutions. Without their checkbooks keeping the market liquid and buying up excess supply, the market would likely have not existed.

    But the bill didn't become law, for a simple reason: Democrats opposed it on a party-line vote in the committee, signaling that this would be a partisan issue. Republicans, tied in knots by the tight Democratic opposition, couldn't even get the Senate to vote on the matter.

    That such a reckless political stand could have been taken by the Democrats was obscene even then. Wallison wrote at the time: ``It is a classic case of socializing the risk while privatizing the profit. The Democrats and the few Republicans who oppose portfolio limitations could not possibly do so if their constituents understood what they were doing.''

    ...

    There has been a lot of talk about who is to blame for this crisis. A look back at the story of 2005 makes the answer pretty clear.

    Oh, and there is one little footnote to the story that's worth keeping in mind while Democrats point fingers between now and Nov. 4: Senator John McCain was one of the three cosponsors of S.190, the bill that would have averted this mess.


    http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aSKSoiNbnQY0




  • User profile image
    wisemx

    It's absolutely Political.
    They want to make the entire RNC look like it is their fault.

    Disclaimer: I do belong to and support the Illuminati. Big Smile

  • User profile image
    jason818_25​3.33

    Your looking at the problem threw a pin hole. To pin point an issue that has take years and years to create you have to look at the bigger over arching problem. We live in a society that lives in debt. We take on debt with out even thinking about it.
    My great Uncle J Reuben Clark Jr who was the Under Secretary of State for the US from 1928-29 had this to say about debt “Interest [on debt] never sleeps nor sickens nor dies; it never goes to the hospital; it works on Sundays and holidays; it never takes a vacation; it never visits nor travels; it takes no pleasure; it is never laid off work nor discharged from employment; it never works on reduced hours. ... Once in debt, interest is your companion every minute of the day and night; you cannot shun it or slip away from it; you cannot dismiss it; it yields neither to entreaties, demands, or orders; and whenever you get in its way or cross its course or fail to meet its demands, it crushes you.”
    So its hard to point fingers when one points away and the other 3 point back.

  • User profile image
    Bass

    Just give me all your money and I'll make it okay.

  • User profile image
    figuerres

    jason818_253.33 said:

    Your looking at the problem threw a pin hole. To pin point an issue that has take years and years to create you have to look at the bigger over arching problem. We live in a society that lives in debt. We take on debt with out even thinking about it.
    My great Uncle J Reuben Clark Jr who was the Under Secretary of State for the US from 1928-29 had this to say about debt “Interest [on debt] never sleeps nor sickens nor dies; it never goes to the hospital; it works on Sundays and holidays; it never takes a vacation; it never visits nor travels; it takes no pleasure; it is never laid off work nor discharged from employment; it never works on reduced hours. ... Once in debt, interest is your companion every minute of the day and night; you cannot shun it or slip away from it; you cannot dismiss it; it yields neither to entreaties, demands, or orders; and whenever you get in its way or cross its course or fail to meet its demands, it crushes you.”
    So its hard to point fingers when one points away and the other 3 point back.

    Interesting ...

    we are all to blame, we all play with money, debt, credit etc....

    best thing we can each do is get out of debt and learn to be careful.
    and stop looking at the stock market as a giant fountan of money like a lotto.

  • User profile image
    phreaks

    figuerres said:
    jason818_253.33 said:
    *snip*
    Interesting ...

    we are all to blame, we all play with money, debt, credit etc....

    best thing we can each do is get out of debt and learn to be careful.
    and stop looking at the stock market as a giant fountan of money like a lotto.

    Umm, you can't live without credit; it's impossible.

    No debt = no credit = no life

    You can't even rent a decent apartment without good credit, so yah, let's all go live in boxes and ride bicycles to work, uphill in the snow.

    Heck, I've had to pass credit checks for my past 3  jobs, so I wouldn't even be able to get a job with poor or no credit.

    We are in this mess because some companies like Ameriquest, Argent and Countrywide sold predatory loans to everyone and many of those people could never have afforded it. Then they packaged it up and sold it off in chunks to Wall St.

    Wall street then created complex derivatives and sold chunks of those off to each other, then they even securitized 'protection against defaults', which really are worthless because they are so complicated no one can understand them. But it didn't matter, they were never intended to be needed, they were just another vehicle to trade for high percentage gains while the real estate bubble was expanding.

    Then the prices of housing grew too big, ppl stopped buying and the bubble burst; home prices began easing back down, and all of a sudden everyone with an adjustable mortgage didn't have any equity left in their homes to refinance down to a fixed lower rate.

    Interest rates began adjusting upwards, and people stopped paying their mortgages.

    Banks began foreclosing and accruing tons of losses due to both foreclosures and declining housing prices, which led to record write-downs. As banks began to face liquidity challenges, the Fed starting shutting them down.

    As more and more institutions failed, banks started hoarding cash and limiting credit to each other.

    How the f**k am I to blame for that? WE, are not to blame; if you had some hand in it, then blame yourself; I had nothing to do with it and I resent the proposition.

    Who is using the market like a "giant fountain of money"?

    You got anymore of that stuff you're smoking?

     

     

  • User profile image
    magicalclick

    Evil banks of course. They hold "I am not going to lend any money, Ford, GE, every company can kiss my *" for 700 billion ransome. The bailout is not a solution, only to give in to evil banks' demands, that's all.

    Leaving WM on 5/2018 if no apps, no dedicated billboards where I drive, no Store name.
    Last modified
  • User profile image
    ScanIAm

    phreaks said:
    figuerres said:
    *snip*

    Umm, you can't live without credit; it's impossible.

    No debt = no credit = no life

    You can't even rent a decent apartment without good credit, so yah, let's all go live in boxes and ride bicycles to work, uphill in the snow.

    Heck, I've had to pass credit checks for my past 3  jobs, so I wouldn't even be able to get a job with poor or no credit.

    We are in this mess because some companies like Ameriquest, Argent and Countrywide sold predatory loans to everyone and many of those people could never have afforded it. Then they packaged it up and sold it off in chunks to Wall St.

    Wall street then created complex derivatives and sold chunks of those off to each other, then they even securitized 'protection against defaults', which really are worthless because they are so complicated no one can understand them. But it didn't matter, they were never intended to be needed, they were just another vehicle to trade for high percentage gains while the real estate bubble was expanding.

    Then the prices of housing grew too big, ppl stopped buying and the bubble burst; home prices began easing back down, and all of a sudden everyone with an adjustable mortgage didn't have any equity left in their homes to refinance down to a fixed lower rate.

    Interest rates began adjusting upwards, and people stopped paying their mortgages.

    Banks began foreclosing and accruing tons of losses due to both foreclosures and declining housing prices, which led to record write-downs. As banks began to face liquidity challenges, the Fed starting shutting them down.

    As more and more institutions failed, banks started hoarding cash and limiting credit to each other.

    How the f**k am I to blame for that? WE, are not to blame; if you had some hand in it, then blame yourself; I had nothing to do with it and I resent the proposition.

    Who is using the market like a "giant fountain of money"?

    You got anymore of that stuff you're smoking?

     

     

    Who is at fault?
    1) Idiot homebuyers who bought more house than they could afford.
    2) Fraudulent homebuyers/speculators who drove up the price of housing.
    3) Mortgage brokers who were paid more money for riskier loans
    4) Fraudulent appraisers and realestate agents who colluded to bring the prices of housing up.
    5) Greedy mortgage lenders who felt that interest was more important than proper vetting of borrowers.
    6) Derivative packagers and the rest of the douchebags on Wall St. who thought that if you package 100 turds with 1 diamond, it would even out.
    7) Non-existant SEC.
    8) A pointless, money-draining war that should never have been started in the first place.
    9) Idiots who think that the economy should (and must) run on credit.

    I'm sure we can come up with a few more reasons why the US economy is in the toilet, but those are all I could come up with.

  • User profile image
    BlackTiger

    ScanIAm said:
    phreaks said:
    *snip*
    Who is at fault?
    1) Idiot homebuyers who bought more house than they could afford.
    2) Fraudulent homebuyers/speculators who drove up the price of housing.
    3) Mortgage brokers who were paid more money for riskier loans
    4) Fraudulent appraisers and realestate agents who colluded to bring the prices of housing up.
    5) Greedy mortgage lenders who felt that interest was more important than proper vetting of borrowers.
    6) Derivative packagers and the rest of the douchebags on Wall St. who thought that if you package 100 turds with 1 diamond, it would even out.
    7) Non-existant SEC.
    8) A pointless, money-draining war that should never have been started in the first place.
    9) Idiots who think that the economy should (and must) run on credit.

    I'm sure we can come up with a few more reasons why the US economy is in the toilet, but those are all I could come up with.
    Nobody to blame...
    Just human's arrogance, greediness and stupidity.
     
    Legend about Tower of Babylon isn't story about construction business, it's story about everything, about human nature.
    It's impossible to grow infinitely. Everything has it's own limits.
     
    PS: So... Just buy new Enigma's disk and start "Same Parents" track...

    If you stumbled and fell down, it doesn't mean yet, that you're going in the wrong direction.
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  • User profile image
    stevo_

    I blame the government and everybody else - I keep getting more and more store cards to help me pay my debts back, but instead my debts keep getting higher and higher.. its all a con - I get 30% apr, and I've never had 30% off anything I've ever bought, they just look at me like I'm some freak when I ask..

    At this rate I'll have to remortgage and try find some loans by christmas to get this debt payed off for good.. sigh !

    Sad

  • User profile image
    phreaks

    ScanIAm said:
    phreaks said:
    *snip*
    Who is at fault?
    1) Idiot homebuyers who bought more house than they could afford.
    2) Fraudulent homebuyers/speculators who drove up the price of housing.
    3) Mortgage brokers who were paid more money for riskier loans
    4) Fraudulent appraisers and realestate agents who colluded to bring the prices of housing up.
    5) Greedy mortgage lenders who felt that interest was more important than proper vetting of borrowers.
    6) Derivative packagers and the rest of the douchebags on Wall St. who thought that if you package 100 turds with 1 diamond, it would even out.
    7) Non-existant SEC.
    8) A pointless, money-draining war that should never have been started in the first place.
    9) Idiots who think that the economy should (and must) run on credit.

    I'm sure we can come up with a few more reasons why the US economy is in the toilet, but those are all I could come up with.
    I really like # 6.
    I LOL'd that one.

    As for #9, I don't think it should, but the reality is that it does.

  • User profile image
    evildictait​or

    Who cares whose to blame? The fact is that the problems arn't republican or democratic, and anyone who tells you otherwise is just FUDing you for your vote. What matters isn't who's to blame, but how and who is going to fix it.

  • User profile image
    tfraser

    As if the banks haven't caused enough pain in people's lives, they then feel the need to go and rub salt in everyone's wounds. What's most sickening is that Richard Fuld of Lehman Brothers oversaw one of the biggest screw ups in America's financial history yet ended up the best compensated of the lot.

  • User profile image
    phreaks

    evildictaitor said:
    Who cares whose to blame? The fact is that the problems arn't republican or democratic, and anyone who tells you otherwise is just FUDing you for your vote. What matters isn't who's to blame, but how and who is going to fix it.

    right. </sarcasm>

  • User profile image
    BlackTiger

    phreaks said:
    evildictaitor said:
    *snip*

    right. </sarcasm>

    Actually... There are/was some guys to blame... It's... TEMPLARS and FREE-MASONS. Not present "new" templar-"ish". Original. Those who was burned by Pope. They are who (re)invented our banking system. They are who invented "live in credit".
    So, say "thank you" to our great-great-great...-grandfathers.
     
    May be Pope was right about templars...

    If you stumbled and fell down, it doesn't mean yet, that you're going in the wrong direction.
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  • User profile image
    spivonious

    ScanIAm said:
    phreaks said:
    *snip*
    Who is at fault?
    1) Idiot homebuyers who bought more house than they could afford.
    2) Fraudulent homebuyers/speculators who drove up the price of housing.
    3) Mortgage brokers who were paid more money for riskier loans
    4) Fraudulent appraisers and realestate agents who colluded to bring the prices of housing up.
    5) Greedy mortgage lenders who felt that interest was more important than proper vetting of borrowers.
    6) Derivative packagers and the rest of the douchebags on Wall St. who thought that if you package 100 turds with 1 diamond, it would even out.
    7) Non-existant SEC.
    8) A pointless, money-draining war that should never have been started in the first place.
    9) Idiots who think that the economy should (and must) run on credit.

    I'm sure we can come up with a few more reasons why the US economy is in the toilet, but those are all I could come up with.
    Fantastic post, ScanIAm.  Although without #1 none of the others would have happened.  We need to learn that you can't have a 5BR house on a $60,000 salary.

  • User profile image
    evildictait​or

    phreaks said:
    evildictaitor said:
    *snip*

    right. </sarcasm>

    Are you seriously implying that people should vote in the election not based on what McCain or Obama say they're going to fix, but on what both sides blame the other for breaking?

    Neither McCain nor Obama have been in power yet, so clearly neither of them broke it, so if you're voting based on whether it was one side's fault or not, you're voting for the side with the better FUD. If you're voting based on what the other side say they'll do, you might actually be voting for a difference - and given that politicians always lie, you might at least be able to see which one of them has a better understanding of the issues and therefore less arbitrary policies.

    It's a shame that in America politicians get away scott free for ignoring questions and charismatically lying their way to the top. In more sensible countries there's this thing called accountability, and we have interviewers who routinely interview our politicians and strip away the worst of the FUD - if an interviewer asks "What do you think of the economy at the current time", our interviewer wouldn't put up with the patriotic-babbling non-answer of "Well, I for one believe in the American people", because it ignores the question and doesn't say anything at all useful. They might as well say "Well, I for one prefer minty icecream over vanilla" for all it tells the American people about their policies or direction under their leadership.

    It's not politics in the States that's broken - it's the media. We don't need Superman in the UK; we've got John Humphreys and he keeps our country safe from harm.

  • User profile image
    phreaks

    evildictaitor said:
    phreaks said:
    *snip*
    Are you seriously implying that people should vote in the election not based on what McCain or Obama say they're going to fix, but on what both sides blame the other for breaking?

    Neither McCain nor Obama have been in power yet, so clearly neither of them broke it, so if you're voting based on whether it was one side's fault or not, you're voting for the side with the better FUD. If you're voting based on what the other side say they'll do, you might actually be voting for a difference - and given that politicians always lie, you might at least be able to see which one of them has a better understanding of the issues and therefore less arbitrary policies.

    It's a shame that in America politicians get away scott free for ignoring questions and charismatically lying their way to the top. In more sensible countries there's this thing called accountability, and we have interviewers who routinely interview our politicians and strip away the worst of the FUD - if an interviewer asks "What do you think of the economy at the current time", our interviewer wouldn't put up with the patriotic-babbling non-answer of "Well, I for one believe in the American people", because it ignores the question and doesn't say anything at all useful. They might as well say "Well, I for one prefer minty icecream over vanilla" for all it tells the American people about their policies or direction under their leadership.

    It's not politics in the States that's broken - it's the media. We don't need Superman in the UK; we've got John Humphreys and he keeps our country safe from harm.
    No, where did I say any of that?

    Clearly, our representatives in both the house and senate have failed us on numerous occasions, and I would hope people will reflect on recent events while casting their ballots for congressional seats.

    Also, had you taken the time to read the article, you would have noted the fact that Mc Cain sponsored a bill 3 years ago that would have prevented much of this mess. The democratic senate choose to make it a party issue and choose not to vote.

    The article puts the accountability into pretty clear perspective, IMHO.

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