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    mtz said:
    jonathansampson said:
    i though creationists believe something like "jewish GOD created the world in six days and rested on the seventh day and the world is the way it is because HE wants it to be that way"

    why religion and science dont mix? lets have an example, john was walking(fact), he fell(fact), he broke two ribs(fact) ..then john shouts .."praise the LORD!! ..i only broke two ribs because jesus loves me so much..i would have broken 15 ribs if it wasnt for him" exactly can you prove/disprove the last part? ..i think this is where science and religion dont mix because at the end of the day, a creationist will say "this thing is this way because GOD wants it that way" ...

    that grand canyon will have to be less than 6000 years old  ..i think evolution has holes in it, i think the bible also has holes in it ..the biggest hole in the bible is this 6000 year old world ..the world is clearly more than 6000 years old ..the biggest hole in evolution i think is  the missing gaps btw species ..

    evolution is not perfect, but its the best explanation of our natural world if you think about it logically ..for example, the bible says that GOD created adam first and then later one created eve when he saw that he was lonely alone least thats how i remember my bible, the question follows, why did GOD created Adam with nipples? he is man, he doesnt need them ..male gorillas have them, cats dont ...nipples in male animal showed up somewhere in the animal tree, where? ..why did it happen? ..becaue GOD just felt like it?

    do you know that you share close to 70 % of your DNA with a banana? why is that? was it because GOD was lazy/efficient and reused some of the DNA lying around from his previous creatins? IF he reused stuff, wont evolution be a better candidate to explain how he started with simpler stuff and build complex stuff ..

    if you look at the periodic table, you will notice that all elements share the same elementary entities, electrons, protons and neutron ..the logical existance of the periodic table is that these elementary particles just add themselves up to form the periodic table ..if you look at animal classification, you will see the same pattern ..if GOD created everything he seem to follow some sort of a plan you can see, i am bordering an intelligence design argument ..the reason why this doesnt fly with science is that the only thing that can reasonably be assumed about GOD in a scientific discourse is that he keeps his hands to himself and can safely be removed out of equestions and assumptions

    as a cretionistt, how do you explain the existence of the periodic table? how do naturalists explain the existence of the periodic table?

    "I object to Evolution on strictly scientific and logical grounds, not because my Bible or personal beliefs dictate that I should"

    one of the core principles of science is that all complex entities comes from combination of simple entities .. if you punch a hole in this principle and the whole scientific thinking crumbles down ..

    look at the periodic table, all elements are arranged according to increasing number of protons, the simplest element is hydrogen with a single proton ..where did this proton come from?

    if you look at the universe, the universe gets bigger as we go forward it time, its logical to assume it will get small as we back it time up to a single point ..what happen before that?

    if you look at logic ..all complex truths and false are based on combination of simpler truths and false the bottom, you will have axioms and all logical statements are based on them as you go up the ladder ..where do they come from?

    if you look at living organisms ..if you classify all living organisms based on their similarities and differences will end up with some sort of a tree and they will all have a common ancestry, a single cell ..where did it come from? what forces forced animal diversity?

    if you look at animals, the complexity starts at the cell level as they organize themselves to tissues, organs, systems and last to complex living organisms did the cell organize itself?

    evolution is a scientific attempt to explain animal diversity in a way that is consistent with all scientific explanations of how complex entities are formed ..

    all scientific explanations fails to explain how basic entities came into existence but can easily explain how they seem to come together to form complex entities

    can you come up with a better scientific explanation of how complex entities are formed? where did the simple ones came from?

    the only reason why people go after evolution is because it directly challenges the bible and people use it when attacking the bible .. but if you attack evolution, you are effectively attacking one of the core understanding of science  ....what logical grounds do you have against evolution? what about some of other things i have mentioned?

    i can personally coexist with both of them ...